Rigging for assymetrical spinnaker

[jasper]

This has probably been coverd before, but I can't find it when I search. I have a Mac 26X and want to install rigging for a assymetrical spinnaker. The boat has roller jibfurling, so I can't use the jib halyard and I assume I will need tio install a separate pully, cleat and tack block
So, what do I need for the mast and bow pulpit hardware and where exactly do I locate these. thanks...Jim

[Rick Westlake]

I added a masthead block for a dedicated spinnaker halyard, and put another block on the bow pulpit for the tack of my spinnaker. Blue Water Yachts have replacement mast-hounds for the block, and they will also sell you the long 3/8" bolt to attach the hounds to the mast. They also have the original "Seadog" mast cleats, and I'm sure they'd be able to sell you the blocks as well.

For the tack of the spinnaker, I put a Harken block on a swivel shackle onto a bolt through the "ears" on the bow pulpit, where you bolt the butt of the mast for trailering. I also use a long Wichard shackle instead of a clevis pin, to hold my forestay and its furler drum - so I lead the chute's tack-line through that shackle and back to a cabin-top cleat. The spinnaker sheet comes back to a cam cleat on the genoa track, back on the cockpit coaming.

When I'm not flying the chute, I tie off the head end of the spinnaker halyard to that block on the pulpit, and pull it down tight at its cleat. (I do mean TIGHT; I have gotten that halyard wrapped into the genoa while I was furling it. Embarrassing, but no harm as I figured it out rather than forcing it too hard.)

Now for my personal heresy: I only use one sheet on my spinnaker, and when I jibe the boat I "Chutescoop" the spinnaker and then walk its sheet around the headstay to the other side of the boat. I had enough trouble, trying to pull it around the headstay with port and starboard sheets, that I decided this tour of the deck was easier. I only use the spinnaker in light winds, anyways, and I sail solo; anyone who finds this "lubberly" is welcome to come sail with me and show me how they figure I'm supposed to do it.

Hope this helps!

[jasper]

Thanks Rick. Lots of info. I mount my danforth anchor in a recepticle on the pulpit and am not sure if that would be the best place for the tack block, in that case. I have seen the "TN tacker" advertised on E-bay and wonder if I could use one of these, attached around the furlled jib, that way, I need only insert the clew ring into the "tacker" shackle.
Maybe best I just ask Blue Water to send me out whatever is needed, that way I should have all the proper stuff.
I did some racing last year and did ok wth moderate winds keeping up with most of the pack, but really lost out to boats with spinnakers when the wind would drop, so | want to be prepared this year.

[Rick Westlake]

I'm sure the ATN Tacker would be a much better answer than my pulpit block. In fact, I may well get one for myself.

Just looked it up in the 2010 Defender.com catalog, and at $85 for our size it's quite reasonable. I'd bet you can do better on eBay.

But I believe you'll want to attach it to the tack ring.

[parrothead]

Here's a post from a previous discussion of spinnakers with some photos that show how the ATN Tacker works on a furled jib and illustrate how a 2nd mast hound can be added for a dedicated spinnaker halyard. If you have a roller furling jib, you also have the option of using the jib halyard to hoist the chute, in which case you gybe it inside the headstay just like a genoa [top photo]. http://macgregorsailors.com/forum/viewt ... 45#p128525

[jasper]

You are right, I meant to say tack ring..........guess I had a 'clew-less' moment

[opie]

Interesting topic, as I used my asymmetrical spinnaker for the first time on Monday and Tuesday in light and variable winds. I riveted in a mast hound 1/2 way between the jib hound and the mast top. Since I was just experimenting, I just used a ring in the hound, without using a block, to take the spinnaker halyard. I ran the tack line, without using a block, under the pulpit mast-holder bolt and back to the cockpit tieoff and left 2 feet of separation between tack and bolt. I ran the one sheet from the clew around shrouds to the leeward side of boat and through a eyelet on lifelines and to a cleat. I have a Chute-Scoop. After a lot of thought and head scratching I had the sail up and working. A real beautiful sight, colorful and bold.
Thoughts:
- I had variable winds. The a.s. seems most useful when the winds are light and steady in one direction, otherwise it was flopping.
- But, when the winds are a bit more than "light" I think my 150% genny is more friendly and useful for me.
- When I tacked, I went forward and used the chute-scoop to dowse the sail and then I threw the chuted sail over the roller furled jib and to the other side of the boat along with leading the single sheet around as well. I had looked at some Youtube stuff about a.s. tacking and this method seemed best for me.
- My honest first impression is that I can do without the a.s. as a non-racer. The roller-furler jib is easier for lazy-day sailors like me. My a.s. came with the boat. I will keep it and hope to meet up with a Mac in the water someday using an a.s. that will fire up my competitive spirit to try it some more and learn from my mistakes.
- Not using blocks was my idea of just trying out the sail with parts at hand, but in thinking about it, the a.s. with a chute-scoop is raised without any strain at all, and the tack is kept in one place and not necessarily adjusted under strain, so not-using blocks in the halyard and tack lines does not seem to be a bad thing.

And here is a note I read on using rivets to attach a hound on an aluminum mast.
Rivets in a mast

[waternwaves]

If you get your assym from Bluewater, make sure your new hounds are at least 16 inches above the forestay
otherwise the sail will be too long.

There is no easy way to tack a socked assym around the forestay. With two of us on the boat, one must be careful of the downwind heading.

I screwed up twice (literally) with 4 billowing balloon sections of the sail tighty wrapped around my furled jib on a 20 mile down wind run down saratoga passage...... 50 ft up I had to untie that mess without be able to use the jib to blanket the chute. I am very glad God did not put an island in the way. It took me almost 50 minutes and 8 nautical miles to clear that.

with a small crew and a sock.......you walk,

I have a spin pole, and a sym chute. I do not use that pole unless there are 3 of us onboard. On the mac I will do the sym with 2 since it is smaller, but on the 40, I will not risk it unless there is someone big enough to lift pull me back on board, I have both lifted myself off the deck, and accidentally lifted my bowman off.......

I will not do that again. Whipping a 150 lb deckmonkey 12 above the deck is not a safe thing.

[Terry]

And here is a note I read on using rivets to attach a hound on an aluminum mast.
Rivets in a mast

This intel is interesting indeed. In the article they used 6 more rivets to really hold the hound on, but in my mind I perceive they merely perforated the Mast at that point making it susceptible to fatiguing and creasing at the perforations.
So what are folks using as a spinnaker hound anyway? Is it a genuine hound like at our spreaders or is it a bail like the vang bail or mast raising bail?
I had to install a fixture above my forestay hound to connect my headsail halyard and pulley block to because I was getting halyard wrap on my furler. The fixture (I forget the tech term) is a curved (to curvature of mast)two inch square metal plate with a U-bolt welded to it that I riveted to the mast with four SS rivets about eight inches or so above the hound. Would this fixture work for a spinnaker pulley hound too? Would it hold the weight of the mast if I used it to raise the mast with the old X mast raising sytem where one uses the jib halyard on the gin pole? Just wondering how safe the fixture is, for now it only takes the load of hoisting one of the two headsails and maintaining luff tension.

[Highlander]

I installed three more mast hounds on my M mast they are the original mac hounds bought from the Factory you only need to drill one 3/8" hole through the mast & through bolt it with a SS 3/8" bolt
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010035.jpg
do not get confused by the second set of 36" spreaders
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010020.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010037.jpg
At this present time my boat is rigged for 4 forestays and working on a 5th to allow for a total of 6 head sails to be flow all together if the need should arrise this gives me 23 differnt head sail confirgurations to play with !

I would not use the after market ones on my M but did on my but I drilled out the 3/16 center hole & used a 3/8" bolt

J

[waternwaves]

ITs not a clipper ship John................. 5 stays? what is the 5th sail called,

Asym
outer jib
inner jib
staysail

????

my math must be rusty......
5 head sails = 32 combinations doesnt it...?? 2^^5

[Rick Westlake]

ITs not a clipper ship John................. 5 stays?

Wikipedia had this to show the rigging of a barque, which is a three-masted ship:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barks ... gning2.png

All those stays, shrouds, masts, booms and associated hardware make my head ache. I feel I'm being quite adventurous enough, working on a free-flying staysail that I can raise inside the genoa on Bossa Nova.

I'm still waiting to hear that John has added a mizzenmast and is sailing a MacKetch.

[waternwaves]

John has each of the visible forestays at diffrent elevations, dont know about the new ones but I am guessing they are similar.

this would be similar to 1,2,4,6 in the diagram. I reviewed mulitple clippers barks, square riggers and the like from 1840 to 1920,

Forestays terminating at 5 elevations on the mast is hard to locate with names......

hence my questions....

what ar ye calling her boy?

[Highlander]

Darren

How about the Highlander Clipper
Here's a short video of my 350sq ft custom made Drifter flying from the 4ft bowsprit off my
http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... 010005.flv

the Drifter is now attached to an CDI Spinnaker Furler
8.photobucket.com/albums/j95/maccutter19/4%20headsails%20Mac19/?action=view&current=I3010071.flv

This is my but my will have a simmular rigged set up
http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... 010087.flv

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... 010069.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... 010048.jpg

This is what my Cruising Spinnaker will fly from when the Rigging & mod is completed
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010001.jpg

J

[delevi]

Convenient as it may be, a spinnaker on a furler just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Trapping the luff of a spinnaker can't be condusive to good performance, and the tack cannot be controlled. maybe on a 9 foot sprit like John's boat, it doesn't matter. For the rest of us, keeping the luff and tack free should give better performance. I'm taking it a step further, using a conventional spinnaker pole on the A-sail. This allows me to bring the luff to windward and sail really deep angles (up to DDW) without wing-on-wing and without being blanketed by the main. I got the idea from the skipper of the boat I race on. We fly an A-sail and rig the pole when deep reaching. This is a best-of-both-worlds scenario using the superior shape of an assymetrical without the limitations, being able to sail it like a symmetrical when needed. Of course, gybing isn't easy, even with a full crew.

Leon