Motoring the 26X

[Rick-D]

I have a question on motoring with the 26X. I purchased a 1998 26X. I had it on a small lake in Ohio and sailed with a full ballast. After sailing I raised the keel and rudders to power on back. The wind was about 10 knots, maybe 12, and the boat did not plane at all and heading with the wind across the beam, it actuall pushed the boat to the side and I could not make any progress. I had to put the rudders down to steer the boat. I have read about the fact it is unsafe to have half ballast and even suggestions that while motoring you should even have a full ballast. With a full ballast I cannot go any faster than perhaps six or seven knots. I do not have a knotmeter on the boat so I am guessing on the speeds. I am a novice with this boat and needless to say it is much different than other boats I have owned. I have owned many boats, power and sail, took lessons through the ASA on Lake Erie, sailed a 24' J-24 and '32 Beneteau. I also owned a 23' shoal draft North American. I felt comfortable in these boats on Lake Erie. I do not feel comfortable on a small inland lake with this boat and it does not respond very well sailing or motoring. I don't know if I am doing something drastically wrong or if it is just the nature of the beast. I have read many people take this boat over to the Bahamas, which I would love to do, but at this point would never do. I'm not trying to be a smart a__ or degrade the boat, just looking for advice. I want this boat to work for me because of all the positives and advantages of this boat.

Thanks for any positive advice, it will be appreciated.

[magnetic]

Hi Rick

I have recently moved back to a after 18 months on a Beneteau 343, prior to which I mostly motored (and only sometimes sailed) a . I agree with you that the initial impression can be a little awkward or even offputting.

After months of fighting with different engines (25 & 40hp), jackplates and different props for the I think the best top-speed I saw was around 17kts; now, with a Honda 50 4stk on the I typically get around 13.3kt with the ballast full and a couple of people on board. I haven't run her at speed without ballast yet, but I strongly recommend a handheld GPS and maybe a "TinyTach" revcounter if your engine doesn't have instruments on the pedestal. The key is to ensure that you are topping out the revs at WOT and not generating vast amounts of cavitation; also, make sure that the leg and cav plate are at the correct height and not set too deep.

I too find the nose a little twitchy when pointed towards the wind under power, with far more correction necessary than I would expect from a boat of this size. I haven't found the answer to this yet, but i sense that any kind of significant wave pattern could be a mother to deal with at planing speeds.

However, do not be dismayed; I find the Mac-specific learning curve is quite steep, and on everty trip I make (5 so far!) I am learning all the time. There are many little quirks and foibles and - overall - I think patience will pay you a dividend. I was absolutely horrified last week when, on the Genoa only (board all the way down), I couldn't point the boat up higher than about 80 degrees to the 8kt wind - my Beneteau would have tacked easily under these conditions - but once I raised the main she was flipping about like a dinghy and was not only highly manoeuvrable, but also damned good fun. I didn't know whether to be heartbroken or delighted, but I was certainly surprised!

Personally - and Nevil who previously owned my boat Morwenna is I believe with me on this - there is no way I would venture out of sight of land on a Mac; short coastal passages up to 5 or 6 miles offshore maybe, but I have nothing like the confidence in her that I had in the Beneteau. That having been said, these are radically different boats, and the idea of taking the Beneteau out for an afternoon picnic to Nowhere-in-Particular just was not on the cards. Neither could I up sticks and tow her to somewhere else. I would not change the Mac now for anything - in fact, I turned down the opportunity to buy a perfectly decent Bavaria 38 in order to buy Morwenna from Nevil, and haven't regretted the decision for a moment. Horses for courses & all ....

The Mac is a compromise; that does not make it a bad boat, but it does call for an open-minded perspective. Give it a few months and see how she performs under different conditions - the people on this forum are both extremelyy helpful and totally insane (i.e. Highlander & Co) and will certainly be able to offer you far greater technical support and guidance. In the meantime, try to check your speed with a handheld GPS, step away from the drill and don't even think about those mods.....!

Best Regards

Andrew

[DaveB]

The mac.X or M is a Motor Sailor and was designed for coastal Cruiseing and this it does very well.
You don't want to cross Oceans or race a J24 Sailboat with this boat.
What it will do is get you from point A to Point B in most wind condition and current and get you there much faster than Sailing if you cheat by useing the 50 HP outboard. Don't worry my friend, starting 50hp outboard will get you there beating to windward or not at 6 knots or more without a sweat, and no worries..be happy.
All about being out there and haveing fun without worries.
Dave

I have a question on motoring with the 26X. I purchased a 1998 26X. I had it on a small lake in Ohio and sailed with a full ballast. After sailing I raised the keel and rudders to power on back. The wind was about 10 knots, maybe 12, and the boat did not plane at all and heading with the wind across the beam, it actuall pushed the boat to the side and I could not make any progress. I had to put the rudders down to steer the boat. I have read about the fact it is unsafe to have half ballast and even suggestions that while motoring you should even have a full ballast. With a full ballast I cannot go any faster than perhaps six or seven knots. I do not have a knotmeter on the boat so I am guessing on the speeds. I am a novice with this boat and needless to say it is much different than other boats I have owned. I have owned many boats, power and sail, took lessons through the ASA on Lake Erie, sailed a 24' J-24 and '32 Beneteau. I also owned a 23' shoal draft North American. I felt comfortable in these boats on Lake Erie. I do not feel comfortable on a small inland lake with this boat and it does not respond very well sailing or motoring. I don't know if I am doing something drastically wrong or if it is just the nature of the beast. I have read many people take this boat over to the Bahamas, which I would love to do, but at this point would never do. I'm not trying to be a smart a__ or degrade the boat, just looking for advice. I want this boat to work for me because of all the positives and advantages of this boat.

Thanks for any positive advice, it will be appreciated.

[Kelly Hanson East]

For starters, even when motoring, drop down a bit of board (maybe 4-5 inches of line) and you will find a Mac will track a lot better under power.

[c130king]

Rick,

What size motor do you have? 6-7 knots sounds pretty slow to me for an . Don't think 10-12 knots of wind should be pushing you around that much.

As for motoring with no ballast...many of us do it all the time. I wouldn't say it is unsafe but you need to pay attention to conditions and keep folks from moving around in the boat as it can be tender.

I have a 40 HP and did 15.2 MPH (I have never switched my GPS to knots) today in calm conditions with ballast. Did 17.5 this afternoon coming back in very slight chop with a little tail wind without ballast. I was by myself and my boat is not very loaded with stuff.

To be honest I am not sure when I am "planing" or if I am "planing".

Good luck,
Jim

[Starscream]

It's good to see you're cautious on your first few runs. I don't think you have to worry about powering without ballast under reasonable conditions that you would expect to find on small lakes. The Macgregor manual is full of scary warnings about keeping weight low and limiting the number of people on board, but this is probably more due to the overactive US legal system. I do a lot of Mac watching and I've only heard of a couple of accidents with regards to Mac stability. One was an extremely sad fatal accident where there were 11 people on board and unclear circumstances, and the other was a post on http://www.ne-ts.com where someone was motoring from the Bahamas and the centerboard dropped causing the boat to flip on its side suddenly. That second one was due to the centerboard rope giving out, and the boat recoverd on its own. Every once in a while you see a post about a capsized Mac, but usually this has to do with sailing without ballast.

In years of Mac-watching before I made the move to buy one last year, I have never come accross a story of anyone flipping a Mac with the board up, no ballast, four or less on board, and operating in reasonable conditions.

7 or 8 knots at full power sounds a little slow from other posts I've seen, maybe your prop hasn't been optimized? If it's the original prop that came with the motor, that could be your problem right there. This boat is designed to be motored with no ballast, and sailed with ballast. There certainly are conditions where you have to have ballast in to be safe, it's a judgment call. As you get more used to it I'm sure you'll push it more and more, that's usually the way of things. But I have to say, you're starting off with the right attitude-caution and careful thought are too often lacking.

[John McDonough]

After sailing I raised the keel and rudders to power on back. The wind was about 10 knots, maybe 12, and the boat did not plane at all and heading with the wind across the beam, it actuall pushed the boat to the side and I could not make any progress. I had to put the rudders down to steer the boat. .

Rick..

What size engine do you have on the back of your 1998 26X ??
Anytime you are motoring without being up on plane you have to have at least 1 rudder down for controll,
I have a 2000 26X with a Honda 50 Hp. I have crossed Lake Erie numerous times, and have traveled the coast ports numerous times and I have never had a problem motoring at full speed or getting up on plane.

Your post is dated dec 22 2009. Maybe you are slidng on the Ice..

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

What size engine and prop is on the boat?

With a 50 hp on an X and the correct prop, usually a 10-12 pitch, and full ballast at WOT you should be able to hit the engine Mfg target RPM and most likely will be doing 11-14 knots depending on how heavily the boat is loaded. Some claim any speed higher than hull speed is planing, personally I don't agree. In my opinion an X with a 50hp never gets on a plane, even with empty ballast. My X doesn't level out on a plane until it hits 20+ knots, and that speed is not possible with a 50hp motor. In any case, don't expect the type of planing you experience in a ski boat.

10 - 12 knots of wind should not affect the boats handling and you should have no problem motoring any direction you want to go. At speeds over 8 knots you may want to have a couple inches of centerboard down to balance out the motor alone. Once the wind gets over 20, and particularly over 30, the high freeboard will make it hard to keep the boat pointed in some directions. I find in the higher wind conditions I have to slow down to 4-6 knots just to keep the hull in the water and not launch off the wave tops. Launching off waves and slamming down with full ballast can be very hard on the ballast tank joints. Since I slow down in heavy conditions, I always drop the fins as they dramatically improve handling. It is perfectly safe to have the centerboard and rudders down at any speed from 7 knots down.

[Rick-D]

Thanks to everyone for your replies and advice. I am over cautious and that is why the boat is in a smaller lake unitl I am confident in what it can do. It has a 50hp Tahotsu (sp) and is now out of the water and I pondered long and hard on the decision to buy it for many years and read all about it. I agree that most of the tragic accidents may have come from operator's error. I don't expect it to handle like a J-24, that is a great boat and handles next to pefect. I do have an old handheld gps and will be able to measure the speed when I get it back in, in the spring. I just know the boat was not doing 10mph. I've had Sea Rays and Pro Line and Well Craft power boats and they are choice but I really like this boat, just need to get used to it because I believe it is very unique. I think perhaps I have to look more closely at the prop. I believe that may have something to do with it. But, as I say, I ran the boat with full ballast and generally with only two people aboard and not weighed down.

I've just always been a dreamer and when I heard about sailing to the Bahamas, I thought that would be a great venture. I have changed my mind after reading of some of the experiences of others and I believe I will just sail through the keys with land in sight for a while. I have recently retired and being able to tow this boat with ease was a big plus, considering all the room in the cabin, just makes some good sense.

So thanks again for the advice and I'll keep working at it 'til I get it right.

Rick

[markdartist]

I have a 1998 X with a Honda 50 that I have owned for four summers. WOT I get 15kn at 5400 RPM. Cruising at 4800 RPM with 120lbs of wife, a weekend’s load of gear and a full icebox, we cruise at about 11kn with no ballast or 9kn with ballast. My understanding is that 5800 RPM WOT is ideal but screwing around with props (pun?) is low on my screwing around list.

In summer, my boat lives on the Columbia River near Portland Oregon and when motoring, I only put in ballast if wind chop is over three feet or so to ease hull slamming and make docking easier. In light air, I often sail (carefully) without ballast.

But salt water in my neighborhood is a different story. Last two summers, I have put in at Port Angeles on the Str. of Juan de fu@. This can be a challenging place and the further west you head, the greater the challenge. I never poke my nose outside the protection of the Ediz Hook without ballast in.

That said, I have crossed to Victoria BC in choppy waters with four foot swell and 15kn breeze with no problem. I feel totally safe and cruise in such conditions at about 8kn. When ballasted, the boat actually rides better at speeds over 6kn than slower, which I think is due to being on plane, bow up. At slow speed, she seems to wallow, but not to the point that a little practice can’t remedy. Of course, a small, light boat in rough seas has a much more violent motion than a bigger, heavier boat. I have twice aborted crossing back to the US from Victoria BC because of rough conditions. Of course, an extra day stuck in Victoria is pretty harsh!

By comparison, I sailed as crew on a Catalina 320 at the end of August, Labor Day weekend, from Port Angeles to Astoria. Although we knew that weather would be less than ideal, once we were off the WA coast, it turned out to be WAY less than ideal, force 7-8 winds right on the nose, definitely a big place for a 32 foot boat. While a little boat may bob over the seas just fine, the whippy motion of a light hull in rough conditions is very hard on crew.

Given adequate experience with the Mac, she is safe, stable and pleasant within her design environment. During the last four years, I have sailed or raced on a Tanzer 7.5, Catalina 320, C&C 35 and C&C 38. None of these boats could offer the same experiences my family & I have enjoyed in the Mac.

Before heading out for a big trip or big water, get to know your Mac well and be sure that all systems are performing as they should. Last, keep in mind that boating is a recreation and never let a schedule put you or your crew in danger. The first step in nearly every disaster is an inflexible mind set.

I think the ‘cautious’ approach you mention in your post is the key to success and eventually, sailing big.

[MadMacX]

I have a 1998 X with a Honda 50 that I have owned for four summers. WOT I get 15kn at 5400 RPM. Cruising at 4800 RPM with 120lbs of wife........

Oh boy, how did you get away with that one? Had I put that out there, the admiral would have my a$$.

Pat

[markdartist]

OOOH BOY! Ya got me there! But after 27 years of adjustment, wife is pretty tolerant of my flaws. Not to mention, she at a very fit 5'7", is by far the best looking accessory on the boat...

PS The 'Admiral' has approved this post!

[Kelly Hanson East]

,,,,never use a number....

" about the same as Angelina Jolie" is safe

[Gypsy]

I wouldn't give up your dream of going to the Bahamas , just yet .
The internet is full of stories of Macs comfortably making the crossing.
There are many stories of people not only making the crossing but living aboard thier Macs
in the Bahamas for several months , while Island Hopping.

The Mac is a hybird boat , nothing else like it on the market . Its not going to handle like a sailboat or a powerboat ,

You and I have a learning curve to go thru .

[magnetic]

I am as big a fan of the as anyone, but let's keep our feet on the ground here!

http://www.havencraft.com/Bahama.asp

The problem is not that the Mac cannot make long-distance offshore passages, but that, if things change and you get caught out, the safety margin is far smaller than in a heavy displacement boat.

Sailing in the Solent - a sheltered area of sea in the Southern UK - I have been astonished by how quickly conditions can turn really nasty; the prospect of being way offshore and needing to get up on the coachroof to handle the 's halyards in a decent F6 - 7 is enough to convince me that there are far better ways of having fun on the weekend.

The Mac is fundamentally a pleasure craft - and a damned good and pleasurable one at that. "Bigging it up" as being far more capable than it really is serves no-ones interests and IMHO is a recipe for disaster.

In fair / moderate coastal conditions nothing can beat the Mac; in anything more sporty, there certainly are plenty of better places to be than in a Mac, and top of my list would be "at home, warm & dry". I make no apologies for sounding like a lightweight/dilettante sailor - that is what I am, and quite happy to admit it