Honda 50 and E Fuels

[ronacarme]

My 2006 Honda 9.9 has an automatic choke. If the 9.9 has one perhaps the 50 does too. Ron

[Bill Earnhardt]

I think my Honda 50 is a 2006, same as my M.
The honda dealer told me the choke is in the same switch as the key.
before you turn the key to start the motor push the key in a little farther first, you should feel the key move in about 1/4 ", then turn to start.

[Captain Jim]

Hello Fellow Sailors,

Last year during the sailing season, we experienced problems with our Honda 50hp 2005 outboard. This was very nerve racking because you never knew if the motor was going to start right away, quit on you at an Inopportune moment, some times the motor would run smooth and all of a sudden it would loose power and run rough. What a pain, not much fun.

Yes, early on in the season I did fill my two 12 gallon tanks with gas having 10% ethanol and then later was able to top off with regular gas. In addition later in the season I used an additive in the gas, but it didn't change the performance.

This year I had the outboard worked on by the local Honda Marine Dealer and the bill came to $700 for rebuilding the carborators, new plugs, new gas filter, new oil filter, change engine oil, change lower case oil and sea trials. Oh yes, they put regular gas in the one of my tank that is currently being used.

The engine now seems to be running real smooth at this time . Now the question is how do I keep it this way? Basically we only use the engine 10 - 15 minutes an outing.

1) Should I add a filter/water separator? If yes, what is the best kind and where should it be mounted on our 2006 ?

2) What is the best additive to add to the gas? How much and frequency rate?

3) I still have one of my 12 gallon tanks with gasoline with the 10% enthanol in it from last season, what is recommended; should I siphon it out and run it in my truck?

4) Get rid of the Honda and then what should replace it that would be trouble free for peace of mind?

What say you folks?

Jim
S/V BOLD VENTURE

[argonaut]

1) Should I add a filter/water separator? If yes, what is the best kind and where should it be mounted on our 2006 ?

Absolutely. Marpac makes a water separating 10 micron filter kit for about $30 that includes a housing, a Racor spin-on 10 micron filter, and an extra. I´ve seen some made with a stainless housing instead of plastic going for about twice that.
Required equipment as far as I, veteran of 3 carb rebuilds, am concerned. Installed mine in the aft starboard fuel compartment, still have room for two 3 gal tanks.

2) What is the best additive to add to the gas? How much and frequency rate?

First, avoid E10 like the plague. Then use Marine StaBil, not the car stuff. Marine Stabil costs more per bottle but treats more fuel, and as additives that deal with ethanol. I take no more chances, if the gas is 2 months I just put it in my truck. Search ¨e10¨ here for more details, one of the posts has a link to a detailed description of why E10 will screw up your motor. Only one place in my county sells it here, and after my experiences I´m a loyal customer, for boat fuel.

3) I still have one of my 12 gallon tanks with gasoline with the 10% enthanol in it from last season, what is recommended; should I siphon it out and run it in my truck?

Yes. Your car/truck will swallow it, your outboard not so much.

4) Get rid of the Honda and then what should replace it that would be trouble free for peace of mind?

I Did. I ditched my Honda 50 after years of expensive hard to get parts and service, endless impeller and cooling issues and nearly always clogged carbs.
But bad fuel will trash most new technology (high mileage) outboards because their orifices are microscopic, so it´s not just a Honda thing. Even EFIs shouldn´t sit long periods with gas in them.

2 stroke, different story. My office mate´s 2 stroke Mercury starts after sitting with year old gas in it, because it´s carb jet passages are big enough to put a pencil lead through. But he uses far more fuel than I do. Maybe 12-15 gallons a season, where I may use 8 in the same period. Yeah... big deal eh?
I imagine the Tohatsu 2 stroke owners here will vouch that they are nearly bullet proof too, slightly more noisy but reliable as heck.
It´s a reliability versus fuel efficiency trade off IMHO.
Ya run that Honda every day and you probably wouldn´t have near the problems weekend sailors have. Fisherman in Alaska use them and get lots of hours on them, crabbers here also. And I don´t see them complaining about engine running issues. Here in hot humid Florida you go 2 weeks without running a 4 stroke and good luck with that.

All things being equal I like the Yammy for it´s more widely available and less expensive parts (compared to Honda...) and certified mechanics in my area.
Stick to what you can get serviced locally. Trouble-free ? The closest thing I could imagine to that would be a an oar, then a 2 stroke 2 cyl with a single carb.
Like most things there is performace, cost, and reliability. Pick the two you want.

[Captain Jim]

Argonaut,

Thanks for your reply and advice. We will certainly take your advice into consideration. Does anyone else have a comment about the Marine grade Stabil as a gas additive? Is there any thing better? I will be installing a filter/water separator before our next sail as you have recommended.

Fair winds,

Jim
S/V BOLD VENTURE

[jcasale]

Greetings,

I hate to kick up an old thread but I am looking for some similar answers. I currently run a Honda 30 and have been using regular (E10, 93 Octane). I am worried about gumming the carbs up and want to drain my tanks and refill with marine grade gas. I do want to clean the carbs but am not sure what products are available and safe. I will use marine Stabil but am not sure if this will clean any gunk out thats in already accumulated. Any ideas?

John

[Captain Jim]

I have switched to SeaFoam and it works great for me. I think it is a great product. I use it in every tank full of gas. I have two twelve gallon tanks and I put one can of SeaFoam in each tank at fill up time. I have had no problems since using this product. I highly recommend it after paying $$$$ to have my fuel system reconditioned having all the gunk removed.

Fair winds,

Jim

[jcasale]

Jim
I have been reading some other blogs about the use of seafoam in both marine and auto applications and I am curious about the initial application. Did you run it through your fuel lines only or did you add it to your oil and vacuum lines as well? How did it affect your engines performance initially (smoke, sputter, etc...) and what ratio do you use now.

Thanks
John

[Captain Jim]

John,

I had all kinds of problems using the ethanol gas. The engine would hardly run. I spent #### having the fuel system cleaned and repaired and the mechanic said that he would see me again in two months or sooner, if I PUT ETHANOL GAS BACK IN MY GAS TANKS. He also, said he would be glad to take my $$$$!

Since my problem, I switched completely to marine grade gas( NO ETHANOL )and I now always put the SeaFoam directly in the gas tank. I have 2 - twelve gallon gas tanks. My first time using SeaFoam, I put 1 - can(16oz.) in each tank, when each tank was full.

The first time using SeaFoam(initial tank) the engine ran a little rough for abouy 5-7 minutes and since has run perfectly. Currently for mainfenance purposes, I add one can of SeaForm to my gas every otjer tank full.

I'm a happy sailor now ! But, if I ever repower, I now feel that I would repower with the Evenrude 60HP outboard engine, since the ethanol probably not go away.

Fair winds,

Jim

[c130king]

Just to clarify for engine dummies such as myself...

Does the Ethanol issue apply to 2-Strokes (Merc 40 HP 2-Stroke)? I have predominantly (my guess is 90+%) used gas from gas stations which probably have ethanol. I have never had any issues but could I be getting arterial sclerosis in my fuel lines from gunk from Ethanol...and is this an issue I should start worrying about? Or is this more of an issue for 4-strokes?

I have used Sta-Bil when I have left my boat for months in storage...with a full fuel tank.

Thanks,
Jim

[Kelly Hanson East]

I think the jury is still out on this Jim. Boat users are notorious for neglecting fuel (Im guilty myself) and then grasping at straw (men) to blame for the neglect.

One thing is for certain, ethanol-fuel blends and fiberglass fuel tanks mix pretty poorly...the tanks tend to delaminate and fail.....ugh....

Just quickly web searching it seems like FL is going to be all 10% ethanol fuel by 2011, and there are only rare fuel stations (2 in Broward County in one blog??) that carry 'pure' gasoline.

Ive been using 10% ethanol in my Merc 50HP, which is all we can get in NY, for many seasons now, without problems....

[jcasale]

Jim

To answer your question breifly, I have no idea . It might have some effect on how the oil dissolves in your fuel but I am not sure. Any gear heads want to chime in?
I'm going to try both seafoam and marine stabil this week, I'll keep you posted on my results.

John

[Kelly Hanson East]

Argonaut actually posted experience with 2 strokes right above, Jim.

[c130king]

Thanks guys. For now I won't sweat it. But if marine fuel (non-ethanol) is available I will use it. I do have a water seperator/filter thing-a-ma-jig. And I do use Sta-Bil when I leave the boat sit in storage.

Jim

[Kelly Hanson East]

Just a word from your resident chemist. The water separator wont remove water from a gas-ethanol-water mixture...in this case the ethanol is acting like 'dry gas' and creating a solvent environment which allows the water to stay in solution with rest of the fuel. If you have a big slug of water, it will help (you will see the water in the filter housing separate out.)