Conflict on the Water, what would you do?

[tompolak]

Saturday when we were getting ready to leave the slip for the evening there was a sailboat and a powerboat coming in together. Did not think much about it, until I heard there conversation. The power boating was apparently fishing and the sailboat was coming into the harbor. From what I heard the guy was fishing at the mouth of the harbor and the sailboat ran over his lines (he was trolling). The power boater was calling this poor guy in the sailboat every name you could imagine and would not stop. Mind you this is in the harbor now as there are plenty of kids around and this guy is using language that would make anyone blush, and of course things like “anytime I am out F** fishing, you f** sail boaters are always getting in my f** way. Why don’t you f** people learn some respect and stay the F** away from people fishing.” Also he accused the keel boat of doing 30 mph at the entrance of the harbor, which I tried to laugh too loud. Another good one, the sail boater said “if you had not been in the entrance to the harbor it would not have happened.” Which the fisherman responded “I was in the middle of F** Lake Michigan.” Anyway, the fisherman (he seemed a little drunk too, but that is just my opinion) followed the sail boater back to his slip which is about ¾ mile from the entrance of the harbor. The guy in the sailboat seemed fairly good about it and somewhat ignored this guy, which seemed to just make him more pi$$ off. By the time they made it past my slip I was afraid for the safety of the sailboat. The fisherman kept coming closer and closer. Finally when the guy docked the fisherman decided to finally leave.

So my wife obviously heard this and later asked me what I would go if this guy did this to us. I did not have a good answer. So what would you do if you were threatened and felt unsafe? Would you use your radio to call for help (coast guard or water patrol), grab your cell phone and dial 911, or would you just try to continue on your way? Anyone here ever been in that situation?

Of course my wife was not comfortable hearing this at all. This was the first time I have seen anything at this level and hopefully I never see it again. Disagreements are bound to happen, but I think if the fisherman had a gun he would have at least showed it, if not used it.

[KayakDan]

A couple of things that could change this situation. Was the sailboat under sail or power? Was the guy fishing in a marked channel?
If the sailboat is under power,it's a toss up. If he was sailing in,there's probably not much he could do in a narrow harbor entrance.
We don't have the problem with fishermen,as much as lobster pots dropped in some amazing places,like mooring fields,harbor entrances,busy anchorages.
If I were the sailor in this case,I would be on the VHF to the harbormaster to sort this out. He would be the only one close enough to respond while it 's still going on. A short conversation between the harbormaster and the fisherman("Sir,have you been drinking while operating your vessel today?") would have put the incident to rest in a hurry.

[tompolak]

Was the sailboat under sail or power? Was the guy fishing in a marked channel?

I would assume it was at least under power and sail, probably power only (harbor entrance is really narrow). I was not there so i can't say if there were within the harbor. There are no channel markers outside of the entrance of the harbor. What I assumed happened is the guy was trolling up and down the coast and came within 100 feet of the harbor (as I have seen other people do this).

I guess it is one of those, doesn't matter who was to blame for the inital problem, just what happened in reponse to the inital problem.

[waternwaves]

Amazing,

and here I thought this was an isolated behaviour.

4 weeks ago, on a sunday sailing back from Poulsbo, to Edmonds, I obviously met a close relative of your boorish boater fisherman.

There were 40+ boats trolling in front of the breakwater entrace in the edmonds harbor. The normal trolling course is parallel to shore. Now mind you, I love to fish, and think everyone who pays the fee to fish legally should be allowed to do so safely. We were on a broad reach parallel to the beach inside the line of the breakwater, so as not to cross as many of the trollers as possible. This is not necessarily the easiest path to take since there are some shallows to be avoided. And with my keel in the big boat, I try to avoid cleaning the keel with sand and rocks as often as possible........(note to the astute reader....... the bottom foot of the the keel and rudder is very clean) I had the admiral on the bow as lookout.

Previous to this date, there have been two boats that we try to avoid, as the beer sogged, sun soaked captain as been known to be vociferous about hating sailboats and they should "get the .... out of his way. " Now mind you, I am under sail, and in no-ones way. approximately 3/4 mile from the entrance to the breakwater, we observe a large course change in a fishing boat 400 yards away from us to diagaonally cross all of the other trollers. And now he is on a course for us.

He pulls in one downrigger line. We tighten sail to speed up, He changes course to continue his intercept. At this point, I think what the hull. So after 1 minutes. I slow down, he changes course a 3rd time. other trollers are now moving to get out of his way. Said same sun and beer basted boater is now less than 100 yards off. so I put full throttle to speed the boat up to 7 kts... This idiot turns to try and intercept again. My admiral cannot believe this joker, I have a breakwater 20 yards off my starboard side, I draw 5 ft. I, a 10 ton boat and this idiot wants to hit me. ,,Now mind you I am now motorsailing, so I knowingly have reduced my right of way, but in shallow water I am still limited.

Since I am aware of certain people that do not respond well to verbal requests to give way, I warn the admiral to watch out. She yells over to the boat, now astern from us, no lines in the water now, to stay clear, he does not acknoledge her.

At this point. I grow tired of this game of a boat trying to chase me.

I grab the 1 of qty 2, 33 lb bruce anchors I keep in the cockpit lazaratte, and as this idiot closes to within 10 ft. of my stern, I hop onto the seat, grab the radar mast, and prepare to heave that 33lb anchor from as high as possible onto and through his fiberglass hull.

With one foot on the helm, I continue to swing that anchor, to position it so sweetly, never have I been so careful for the EXACT point of contact of the anchor with the surface, When he finally realizes that he is about to be visited by my stern anchor, he bears off , accelerates to port, and refuses to respond to numerous hails. The best part is, enough of the other trollers are just shaking their heads and laughing at the nimrod, that I think the point was made.

I just wanted to be sure that he didnt leave the scene of the almost accident. The guy now has 3 complaints against him with the edmonds harbor master (where he docks/launches), and for some reason, he stays clear of my boat. I will not identify the boat by number, however I will say, I now know that I will never travel in one of my sailboats again without the stern anchor ready.


The admiral observed the entire scenario, and remarked that obviously the only way to make that guy happy was to turn around and never go near edmonds. I chose not to call 911, so as not to trouble the operator with a civil disagreement. And I would have called 911 about the sinking fishing boat off the edmonds breakwater...........really, I would have........ Cuz I still would have been there...........anchored so safely. And if the first anchor did not go through the fiberglass and set........... and I did have a second 33 lb bruce back there also.

I knew I couldnt get to the bow and carry the 66 pounder on the bow very easily.

But I have never before been chased by an idiot who took it so close. It was close to a second amendment moment,......

The right to keep bare arms carrying the anchor shall not be infringed.....

[Laika 26X]

FWIW

What I do is follow the Nav Rules: 18 & 2 (See below)

But I must ask myself the question that must be asked: Was there a channel, and was the fishing being conducted in it? If the sailboat was constrained by her draft to a channel and her ability to maneuver, she was the “Stand on” vessel and the Fishing vessel was the “Give way” vessel.

But the one thing we teach at boater’s class to our students: When you have to go to Court in an on-water-incident, you will always have to accept part of the blame, courtesy Rule 2. So I do my best to avoid an incident.

Bottom line, regardless of all the above, the fisherman showed his lack of Seamanship. Especially if he used his craft in a threatening manner

My cell phone can record such behavior for later and the Authorities, if I feel threatened by another boater. Like defecation, it happens. Also, you don't need to use "Mayday" to contact the USCG for help using Channel 16, just call them, switch to 22A and explain the intentions of the other boater. Make sure you can get the name/reg number off the hull.

Another good item to have is the phone number to your local USCG station, call in and let the Watch stander know what’s happening if you’re afraid to use VHF.

That is a VERY good number to have on your cell. They are here to help.

You may do another boater a favor by getting a possible drunk off the water. Believe it or not you’re helping the "bad" boater too.

"Sub" Ed Tordahl
USCG Auxiliary
AV Certified
Boat Crew Certified
Instructor Certified

RULE 2
RESPONSIBILITY
(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master, or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.

(b) In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.




RULE 18
RESPONSIBILITIES BETWEEN VESSELS
Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:

(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
a vessel not under command;
a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
a vessel engaged in fishing;
a sailing vessel.

(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
a vessel not under command;
a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
a vessel engaged in fishing.

(c) A vessel engaged in fishing when underway shall, so far as possible, keep out of the way of:
a vessel not under command;
a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver.

(d) Any vessel other than a vessel not under command or a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained by her draft, exhibiting the signals in Rule 28.
A vessel constrained by her draft shall navigate with particular caution having full regard to her special condition. [Intl]
(e/d) A seaplane on the water shall, in general, keep well clear of all vessels and avoid impeding their navigation. In circumstances, however, where risk of collision exists, she shall comply with the Rules of this Part.

(f)
(i) A WIG craft shall, when taking off, landing and in flight near the surface, keep well clear of all other vessels and avoid impeding their navigation;
(ii) a WIG craft operating on the water surface shall comply with the Rules of this Part as a power-driven vessel. [Intl]

[Wind Chime]

I think as boating continues to become more and more popular, there are going more people will be on the water. More people on the water with less experience that do not know the boating rules, regs, and etiquette. And lets face it, some people who are generally just not happy or nice people. Although I find this more with day trippers, wake boats, rentals etc, close to the marinas, and not as much when we are out cruising, as cruisers seem to be very supportive and cooperative.

The Pleasure Craft Operator Card (PCOC) legislated by Transport Canada and is mandatory for all boaters in Canada effective September/09 will help a little. Not sure what is in the USA. But every type of incident is covered in The International Regulations for Avoiding Collisions at Sea, COLREGS or Rules of the Road. http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow ... lregs.html. I have a copy on board and one at home for review.

In this instance my interpretations is:
- The fishing vessel (and its fishing gear) had the right of way, even in a river mouth, and even though he may be interpreted by some as a hazard to navigation. (assuming the local fishing regs outlined by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans allows fishing there).
- If the sailboat has its motor on (even if mainsail is up, or the engine is not in gear), it loses its privileges as a sailboat and is considered a power boat.
- Even a vessel under full sail (no engine on) must avoid a boat fishing and its gear.
- but both vessels are responsible to avoid a collision.

I also fish. And fishing in the mouths of rivers is great because that is where the fish "stack" waiting to change breathing from salt to fresh water and go upstream together to spawn. I always check with the DFO before every trip to ensure that I am allowed to fish where I am going, and what species I can retain. If the government says I can fish there, generally I do because they have assessed the hazards to navigation and approved it.

As a sailor. When I approach a vessel fishing I give it extra room, lots of extra room if I can. I slow down to let him pass a long ways in front or may even do a 360 degree turn if necessary. Lots of boats today have fishing downriggers (even our 2000X). So the trolling lines go straight down, and no way out behind the boat. I had my gear cut last year by another fishing boat when trolling without downriggers.

More to your point:
- As far as the danger that came about because of this incident, I think it needs to be treated the same as if it was on land and was "road rage".
- I had a guy wave a gun at me while driving. My first reaction was to drive to the nearest police station or call 911 and drive to a pre-allocated destination to have police meet me there if still being followed.
- On the water this is much harder. But I would call the Coast Guard, and if response time could not be fast enough, call land police and have them meet me at the marina.

My 2 cents.

[Scott]

Similar incident with a ski boat and the captain and crew looking astern after circling and hooking their skier. We were under sail and well away from him and his intended path. By the time his skier gave thumbs up we were 50 yards out and his boat had spun in the wind so as to put us dead ahead from him.

He rammed the throttle forward and the skier popped up. They continued to look / watch the skier and I scrambled forward yelling at the top of my lungs and waving franticly. I told (yelled at)my wife to make a hard turn. Upwind would have resulted in bow to bow contact. Downwind would have been near impossible as it was windy and we were sheeting in tight. As well they would have then broadsided us.

They eventually noticed that their skier had dropped the line and waved his arms like he had a seizure. When as a normal course of action the captains head swiveled forward to u-turn back to his skier, he noticed the sailboat about 50 feet off of his bow. Evasive action ensued and he missed us only to circle and taunt. (I prepared for a limited military action)(his wife/ girl wasn't in agreement with him, she began saying something that resulted in his ceasing.)

Much like W+W, I am cool with altercations and was well prepared to repel a boarding by said pirate. My wife who is adamantly opposed to my testosterone laced innate responses was well on board for a skirmish. (She was P*ssed!!, she actually said "kick 'is a**." Which is waaaay out of character for the princess)

She really meant to say "call the lake patrol", yup thats what she meant.

[smoyer]

Aren't these just more arguments for carrying a flare gun instead of hand flares? Just kidding but you know that most of these guys have never read the Coast Guard rules for right-of-way. And of course, we need to ALWAYS yield to human-propelled craft or we don't really have a right to complain (okay, some of them seem to know the rules and purposely get in your way too).

[Kelly Hanson East]

She really meant to say "call the lake patrol", yup thats what she meant.

She meant, call the lake patrol, to come pick up the bodies...

[Scott]

Funny Steven, She did also say (after the fact) That she should have thrown the MO Boaters regulation book at him.

We keep a copy in the cockpit near the helm. She was convinced that he was close enough for her to have hit them with it. And she throws like a little girl. Oh wait...............

[bscott]

Did the operators of either vessel sound the appropriate maneuvering warning signals? The sounds of air horns will certainly attract witnesses to any illegal/dangerous situations. A 911 call reporting a drunk boater's boat registration and name is also in order.

Either a 5 second long blast or 5 short blasts is appropriate to warn an overtaking ski boat that a collision is apparent.

I keep my air horn and a very loud whistle handy especially around rental boats and water skiers.

Bob

[Scott]

I didn't have the presence of mind nor the time to reach down the companionway to grab the horn. It is right inside in a plastic pocket.

All of the dangerous portion took around 8-10 seconds. Correct that, 3-4 seconds.

[waternwaves]

ahhh.

but no one noticed.....

A properly anchored vessel does not need to give way to anyone. fishing or not.

honest officer, must have been poor seamanship for him to hit my anchorline,

and you folks need to note......when I sped up.....he pullled up his second downrigger (thats when I knew he was screwing with me)........and was no longer a fishing vessel, merely a boater contemplating future fiberglass repair.

I chose not to use audio signalling because of the problems with the departing ferryboat horning off another idiot that was crossing the ferry durings its departure......

first time im my life I have heard a ferry boat emphasize with more than 5 signals....... infact those fishermen recieved almost 25 seconds of PO'd ferry captain after the 5 blasts............ yeah.....they boat was that close.

none of that 100 yds away as required by the homeland security guys......

I hate to say it..... I was actually wishing for the coasties in the rigidhulled patrol boats with the 3 huge outboards on back....and that sweet 50 cal on the pintle, and their power of arrest.

[Scott]

A properly anchored vessel does not need to give way to anyone. fishing or not.

W+W, This is a new one to me. I must've missed that chapter in the Sailing and Seamanship course.

What is the correct procedure for setting anchor in a fishing vessel. (into a fishing vessel?)

[pokerrick1]

Try "properly anchoring" in a shipping channel and see what happens when one of those cargo containers comes bearing down upon you - - - you'll "give way"

Rick Less in Las Vegas

PS Ah - you'll argue that a boat anchored in a shipping channel is not properly anchored