Help regarding Sailboat

[Jeremy]

I was hoping someone could help me identify and evaluate this boat.

The seller doesn't know very much about it and it's quite a drive to examine it in person. I don't know very much about sailing or sailboats so any opinions and evaluations or warnings regarding this ad would be helpful.

I am looking for a small sailboat that I can learn on with my son. I'm hoping to find something that isn't too difficult to learn on but not so easy as to become bored. Also, I'm hoping that I can find something for which parts are easily available if necessary.

EDIT: Also, any warnings or advice about what the first time sailboat buyer should be aware of would be especially helpful as well.


Thanks in advance

http://fargo.craigslist.org/boa/1321882419.html

[Rick Westlake]

Honestly, I don't know the Ventures and I don't know that particular model. But it's hard to see how you could go wrong for $900 - unless there's something wrong with the boat itself.

Caveat emptor ...

Give the vessel a real gimlet-eyed inspection from stem to stern.

Make especially sure of the swing-keel, its pivot-mounts and its lifting mechanism. Get under the hull and see if you can fish out the keel-lifting cable - the seller ought to help you. Make sure the cable isn't corroded down at the swing-keel end; spool all the cable off the winch and pull it through a towel to look for any broken wires ("meathooks").

Check every fitting for corrosion. Inspect the standing rigging (the forestay, backstay, and side shrouds) - look for corrosion on and around the fittings, and check for meathooks on the steel cables themselves.

Check below-decks for any evidence of leaks - crawl into every space you can, reach into every space you can reach, pull off every access panel you can pull off. See what's in the bilges; see what's in every cubbyhole you can open.

Walk over every square inch of the deck to see if there are any soft spots. I'm pretty sure the Venture deck is cored with balsa wood, and if that's rotting out you've got to walk away right then.

Make sure everything works - every hinge swings - every moving part moves - every latch, latches securely.

Take a serious look at the trailer. For that price, you'd have to settle for it as it is - but does it look as though the seller took reasonable care of it? If you can, jack up each wheel and see how the bearings feel. Be ready to replace the tires yourself, sooner or later - but I'd be reluctant to buy if the trailer needs new tires right away.

Pull out the sails and all the lines, and take a careful look at them - especially the sails themselves. I guarantee you that a new main and jib will cost as much as that seller is asking for the boat! The sails should be white, not yellow, and reasonably "crisp" and stiff. Look at the stitching and make sure it's still in reasonable condition. Take along a small safety pin, and ask the seller if you can "punch-test" the fabric - it should make an audible "pop" when you punch a pinhole in the fabric.

If you still like what you see - tell the seller so, but admit that you "still aren't sure ... would you consider taking me out for a test sail?" If the answer is yes - and you're pleased with the results - buy it! Even if the answer is "no", as long as the boat passed your inspection, it's probably worth buying. (Frankly, I bought both of my MacGregors without a test-sail ... but I walked away from one candidate after the test-sail, because of non-working equipment aboard the boat.)

I would "Venture" to say that you could have a very enjoyable next-few-summers with this boat. It's small enough that you could have fun with it on even some modest-sized lakes, and a trolling motor should get you in and out of the ramp without much trouble. It's big enough that you and your son could have some ""real adventures" camping-out on anchor some weekends. It's simple enough that you can sail it easily, but boat enough that you can learn a lot from it. And $900 plus the long drive to Bemidji isn't much to pay for the fun you'll have.

Good luck!

[Jeremy]

Thank you very much for your help Rick. This is great advice and very helpful.

Now I just need to figure out what all those things you mentioned are.

[Jeremy]

One last question, do you think I could pull this with a mini-van with an aftermarket hitch? Seems reasonable to me but just thought another opinion would be helpful.

[craiglaforce]

A retired doctor at my old marina in NJ had a venture 17 and was out sailing it every day even in pretty stormy weather. Nice little boat seemed to sail very well, would also heave-to very well. I think almost any vehicle could tow it.

I would assume the sails would be shot on a boat that vintage if they are the originals, and probably a bit of work to finish the painting and such, but 900 bucks is almost free. I would get them to take pictures of the sails, the centerboard etc. Does it come with a motor ?

SHould be lots of these boats around. Maybe you can find a similar deal on one closer to you that doesn't need the hull painted and that has a little outboard. Heck a little outboard in decent shape will cost more than $900.

[Ivan Awfulitch]

I had an old '71 Venture 17 for years. These are extremely well mannered and capable sailboats. They're easy to learn, and handle very well. Not a bad price either. As has been suggested, the area under the V-berth seems to be where they leaked and rotted. Check the chainplates and the area under and around the mast as well.

Also, there's a '71 V22 listed for sail on this site (in MO) with a 2 year old trailer for $500.
http://macgregorsailors.com/cgi-bin/pho ... AdNum=1886

The factory trailer will probably be a bit of maintenance including rust and springs (mine was at least) so a newer galvanized trailer would be a major plus.

My 17 weighed about 900 lb., and was about 1250 lb. on the trailer (without equipment) and I used to tow it with a Plymouth Reliant station wagon (had 2000 lb. capacity) and it pulled it very easily without struggle. That boat is probably 400 lb. heavier, so probably close to 1900 lb.?

Edit: A little more info on the 21 and 22's:
http://www.tompatterson.com/Sailing/Sai ... ing14c.php
http://www.tompatterson.com/Sailing/Sai ... ing15c.php

[nedmiller]

There is a similar boat in St. Louis--asking $1300 and looks in good shape.

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/boa/1315349717.html

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

We had a Venture 21 for many years before we bought our X. Ventures are the early MacGregors. They are a great, simple boat and there is very little that can go wrong with them Our's was a 1970 and I sold it to my sister when we bought the X. It is still in service today, their 18 year old son was just out for a weekend trip on it.

The main thing to check is the keel, pivot bolt, and hull it self for any holes. The keel was fiberglass encapsulated cast iron and over time as water gets in and it rusts it expands and tends to split the casing. Ours had this problem but I just did my best to seal it up with marine tex and it was perfectly serviceable. Obviously a rusted pivot bolt could leave the keel at the bottom so you want to make sure this is in reasonably good shape. They can be a bit tricky to change out. We never used the hold down bolt on ours so you might want to seal up that hole. As long as the hull is not damaged you should be fine. Expect some crazing. The rest is simple, a wood rudder and tiller, a very simple rig and sails. Ours had a furling boom. There was a ratchet at the gooseneck that allowed you to roll the boom in one direction and wind the main around it. However it was such a pain to unroll we never used it. I actually replaced our dead jib with a hank on jib from a X and it made a perfect genoa. Inside it's just plywood, foam, and vinyl. The electrical is just a couple switches, lamp cord and light bulbs. They have no plumbing system.

A few additions we found useful was a water tank under the vee berth plumbed to a pump faucet. I extended the vee berth a bit to get a quazi galley area. I cut into this a opening for a simple dish washing tub. No drain, you just lifted it out and dumped it over the side. I added a cover for the sink which supported a butane stove. Behind this I put a cutout to hold a cooler partway recessed and added some storage racks along the starboard wall with an electrical distribution panel on the end. I even had 110v shore power via an extension cord and a 5 amp built in charger. I sewed new covers for all the vinyl cushions and installed carpeting and curtains along the walls to make it more comfortable. I built a step for the companionway that covered a standard 2.5 gallon porta potty. Outside I put on some lifeline stanchions and netting for our small kids. This actually made it feel like a large boat.

http://home.comcast.net/~duane.dunn/windsong.htm

[Jeremy]

Thank you all for the excellent help, tips and direction.

I'm very hopeful (though probably dreaming) that I'll be sailing someday soon.

[Jeremy]

http://home.comcast.net/~duane.dunn/windsong.htm

Wow. Very impressive!

[sealover]

So did you get it?

I had a similar experience: I owned a fold-up 8' sailing dinghy and really enjoyed it but wanted something I could take the Mrs. out in, and use in larger water. I found a '73 V17 in sailable condition for $900, including a mid 90's 4 HP Yamaha. I figured, worst-case the motor was resellable for $500, the trailer for a few hundred and the mast had some scrap value. Turned out to be a great boat. (I ended up getting it for $800) I bought it in the Spring and have been sailing it as-is. I plan to paint top and bottom while it's in storage this winter. Also a few other things: swap out the jam cleats for the jib sheets with cam cleats, install the transducer for the depthfinder/GPS ($150 on clearance at Dick's) And replace the wood, and a few other cosmetic items.

I had to make a trailer tongue extension to launch the boat on what must be the shallowest ramp on the entire Susquehanna River. I originally made an 8' one but had trouble floating the boat off the bunks so I then made a 12 footer. They do sit high on the trailer. Some people unhitch the trailer and use the winch to lower the trailer into the water. Too time consuming at a busy launch on a weekend.

I tow it with an old Mercedes station wagon (6 cyl gas, automatic) and it tows great. What minivan? Chrysler minivans have notoriously weak transmissions as it is. If it's a rear wheel drive (or AWD) Aerostar or Astro you could tow just about any trailerable boat. I'm not a fan of towing with a front wheel drive, but if you avoid hills and drive gently (and never, EVER in Overdrive except maybe on a flat highway) you'd likely be okay. Get the transmission fluid changed first, and change it more often. If you're in a flat area it probably doesn't matter. It's all hills around here. (Southern PA) Good luck and enjoy!