Seduced by it's grand cabin and promise of fast travel, I bought an 2000X with a 50hp Yamaha 4 stroke several months ago. I previously owned a standard lead keeled displacement hull sailboat for many years. From the beginning I was deeply disappointed with the Macgregor's low speed handling characteristics especially with ballast empty, centerboard and rudders up.
Of course, with centerboard and rudders down, maneuvering somewhat improves. However, handling is nowhere near as good as my old boat. I understand this may be normal for it's "powerboat type hull design".
At sea, underpower with empty ballast, centerboard and rudders up, when normally cruising at 12-14 mph the nose of the boat is constantly wandering between 15-25 degrees from side to side and is almost impossible to keep on course. This is especially pronounced when running down swell, and is more than just irritating.
I am wondering if this is this a characteristic of all these boats or just my boat?
The boat is kept in a slip, but I have checked the bottom and all seems well.
I have checked this site and don't see much on this subject, anyone have any similar experiences? Ideas?
Yes, I would say it is normal. Compared to your old keel boat, the Mac is extremely light weight and is easily knocked about by waves and wind on its high topsides. Design compromise...... if you want to motor 10+ kts faster than your old boat, that's the price you have to pay.
I find an improvent in tracking by having the centerboard down just enough to be just emerging from its trunk.... from fully up, let out about two inches of the centerboard line. This will allow the leading edge of the centerboard to be just sticking out enough to act as a small keel, but not enough for it to generate any unexpected side loads. The trailing edge will still be within the trunk. The boat will still wander, but not as badly.
J.Teixeira wrote:
For trailering move the weight to the stern.
Is this an thing? I know on my it is important to move weight forward when trailering...too much weight aft causes the trailer to sway more.
Sorry for changing the subject.
As to the subject...I don't have much issue motoring my boat like you describe. Some control issues but less I think. I believe the has some design differences to help in that regard.
I put two AGM batteries under the Vberth and 30' of chain in the chain locker of my X, and it helped noticably. But it still is sensitive to wind and waves, as any light boat will be.
Can we have a bit of info in your sidebar area, about where you are located, etc.? Thanks.
As for your comments, you have described the performance very well, as my 1999 Mac X does the same things. However, I prefer to call them characteristics of the boat and not an irritating problem at all when you weigh all the facts. In other words, not a handling problem but rather handling characteristics, just like my relatives all have special characteristics that make them lovable and each reacts differently to special situations. haha
You mention that when at 12 to 14 kts in open sea your MacX wanders 15 degrees or so especially with ocean swells. (no ballast, all fins up) Yep. That is true. I get that wandering especially during a swell coming at the stern. I move my wheel back and forth and straighten out and then get on with the trip. Personally, I always have a full ballast in the ocean and only drive it at 7 to 8 knots when out there and still get that wandering bow. Not ever having a leaded keel boat, I don't know how they track. Better, I am sure. In the waterways or on a lake, I empty the ballast and go 12 to 14 kts and there is no wandering. I can cut doughnuts and cut other wakes and it tracks on a dime with all fins up (maybe 2 inches of CB line out.)
But, when I have to slow down in a non-ocean area for no-wake zones or for dolphin watching, with no ballast and fins up, the Mac will certainly require 45 degree rapid turning of the wheel to keep on slow course.
The key to your comment is the "open ocean" statement. The rise and fall of the Mac on the ocean swells creates the wandering.
Now, is this bad or good? You say, "irritating." As for me, I analyze the situation and figure out that the Mac is only 2500 lbs (1100+ kilos?) of hollow fiberglass, so why wouldn't it float around under power with no fins (or even with fins sometimes) ? I just accept it and turn the wheel back and forth. Having paid only $14,000 for a used Mac and motor 3 years ago, I feel I won the lottery by the accumulation of great memories of times on the water. If I had bought a full leaded keel boat that would not twist a bit under ocean swells while powering, I probably could not have trailered it which would have meant no boat for me as slips here go for $5000 per foot to purchase. (Yep, $150,000 for a 30 foot slip.)
While speaking of handling, let's discuss beating. My Mac will go great on a run, OK on a downwind, and very slow on a beat or upwind. In fact, I have held my own on runs with other boats and maybe 1/2 as fast as some 35 footers. But when going upwind, the story is different. While beating one time, I saw a 35 footer appear on the horizon, pass me and disappear over the far horizon all while I am trying to go 3 miles to the inlet to get home. Did, I get disgusted with the Mac? Heck no. I was on the water. I had cold beverages and companions. I had a soft cushion. I had a breeze and a view and pelicans diving around me, with a dolphin or two. I could have been on a piece of large plywood tied to oil barrels sitting in a lawnchair out there and still felt like a million dollars. Especially since I pass several marinas each time I go out and 99% of the sailboats are in their slips and most seem to never leave the slips. What good is having those beautiful, salty, sailing vessels if you never get to take them out or can't find crew?
As for wandering, one last story. Last Thursday I went out with two crew out the Carolina Beach Inlet for a 7 mile intended sail in 10 to 15 kts (gusts to 20) to Masonboro Inlet to the north. CBeach inlet is dangerous, with no jettys and with sand and breakers all around you until you get 1/2 mile out to the sea buoy. I knew it would be wet, but fun. We sailed under a reefed main out there about 2 miles north and thunderstorms developed to the north near where we were headed. We turned around began to sail back, beating slowly. Not a problem, since I was hoping that the storms would pass. When they did not, we took down sail and motored with fins up, ballast in, back to the inlet.
The narrowest part of the CBeach inlet is probably 100 yards, 9 feet deep with 3 foot water beyond that on each side. Just as I was approaching this pinch point I noticed a 30 foot fishing boat at full throttle coming up on my port side. As is my custom, I gave more room by heading starboard a bit intending to cut to port when he passed so as to cut the wake at 45 degrees. Well, the swell height was 3 to 4 feet and his wake was 3 to 4 feet and they both got happy together just as I made my cut and a wall of water was headed to the port side of the Mac. My daughter was sitting on the port side and the admiral was below. The wall of water was above the transom and I expected to get wet or flooded or worse (since the hatchway was open). However, the Mac did a wild swing to port, leaned over at least 45 degrees to starboard and rose up the swell to the top and down the other side as I spun the wheel to straighten out and get in the fishing boat's wake. Wow. My daughter said she thought we were going over. I just breathed a sigh of relief and patted the Mac on the fanny and said "thank you."
Yes, there may be many things said about the Mac X or M but I say thank you, Roger, for making them for us.
I've noticed that, at the start of an extended cruise, the wandering steering problem seems more pronounced. It may be that my steering reactions are just a bit rusty to begin with, but I think it may also have to do with weight distribution and trim. We sleep in the V berth, and use the aft berth for stowage. Much of our food supply is stowed there, in stacked plastic tubs. Also, we carry up to 15 gallons of extra gas in plastic jerry cans in the stern area. I try to offset this weight distribution, but options are limited. Steering always seems to improve as weight gets reduced in the stern area.
As a kid growing up on the water, we used to dink around with small "hydroplanes" powered by fire breathing 5 horse outboards.
The first one we built, about 6 or 7 feet long, had a smooth bottom, much like an X or M.
It would go pretty fast, but it wouldn't turn very well in the water, just kinda crab sideways.
As 12 year-olds, we weren't exactly marine engineers.
We asked the local boat builder how to make it better and he had us install a 1X2 the length of the hull on the centerline.
Night and day difference.
It gave the hull something to bite the water, much like a keel, and it worked perfectly.
That little boat would track and turn fine.
I've thought my M has needed the same idea applied, but I'm still not a marine engineer.
I'm not sure of the best way to add something to the hull centerline like that after the fact, but I wonder why they aren't built that way from scratch?
I can't imagine it hurting sailing in any way. It may even improve it somewhat with more "keel" area to work the water.
Until then, I use about 6"-8" of daggerboard down also.
You might check the condition of your sails----If you still have the 8-9 year old OEM Doyle sails you need to up grade to some KH C2000. There are numerous performance mods you can make to make the boat sail faster and flatter. A CB boat requires attention to the position of the CB on different points of sail. Mast rake is also critical.
My:macx: is the first wheeled steering boat I've owned and found that I over corrected the steering as feed back is almost none existant. I had to teach myself to only correct course half way---that and the CB dropped 4-6 really made a difference.
You will have to spend some unlearning some of the keel boat techniques as the is really a 26' dinghy.
I just changed the engine on my from a Suzuki 50 with a small prop to a Mercury 60 Big foot with a 14" prop. The first thing I noted is that the boat is more surefooted. I also installed a set of wedges so I could lower the bow angle when needed, also a big help.
Because of stability issues it is not reccomended that you lower your bow with weight. The weight should be concentrated near the center of the boat where the beam is widest . If rough seas raise your transom, the bow will dig in, and you could experiance a knock down. I know because that happened to me comming into Oceanside, CA harbor last Oct.
I used to carry 60 ft of chain in my bow anchor locker, I now carry 20 ft of chain there. By the way, when my unballasted was knocked down by a 5 foot following wave , I went over about 80 degrees to starboard, as I was standing on the starboard coaming planing a long dive to clear the boat, it self righted. The 2 lessons I learned, were to lighten the bow, and not to come in to a treacherous harbor unballasted. I've had a slip in Oceanside harbor for 10 years, and that was my first problem.
Mac Gregors are unique boats, realy worth the low price of ownership, nobody can compete with them, if you like to modify them like I do, you can eliminate some of the handeling problems. I also have an autopilot with remote control so I don't habve to touch the wheel if I don't want to. As much I have spent modifing my boat, I've still not spent a fraction of what a "pedigree" boat would cost, and I have a lot more fun!
Ric K
This is a great source with a lot of good ideas you are in the right site!!!!
Thanks for all the great replies. I have noticed that as I have added modifications this has also added weight to aft of the boat which has sacrificed performance and handling.
I think moving the batteries and other items to under the V-berth is a good start. I will also try the centerboard trick.
I am located in Dana Point CA.
as You stated before the is very hard to controll with emty ballast tank and all bords up, it´s no fun to do so .
With my in this configuration I decided to give my autostering system Raymarine SPX 5 a trial (by the time it was still working http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... =8&t=13977 ).
I was absolutely surprised , when I engaged it, it was continously correcting the course and the boat was running stable as on rails. I assume that the sensor of the system is sensing changes in direction of the boat faster and the computer is initiating the correct amount of counterforce for correction quicker than man can do.
it is important to move weight forward when trailering...too much weight aft causes the trailer to sway more.
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, when I engaged it, it was continously correcting the course and the boat was running stable as on rails. I assume that the sensor of the system is sensing changes in direction of the boat faster and the computer is initiating the