V 2-22 Survey: Keel Pivot Bolt Size?

[ChockFullOnuts22]

Hey, guys. On a volunteer basis, I'm conducting a survey/study to find out what size keel pivot bolt people have in their 1970-up V22/V222. There appears to be the possibility that at least some of these boats left MacGregor's factory with a 1/2" pivot bolt instead of the 5/8" one. According to the parts catalog on Blue Water Yachts' web page, the early V17 and V21 were the only boats to use the smaller pivot bolt. However, I have seen two examples indicating that the V22/222 may also have employed the smaller pivot bolt.

In Brian Gilbert's book, Fix it and Sail, Mr Gilbert makes mention that he found a 1/2" bolt being used as the pivot bolt for his keel, with a nylon bushing in the keel to fill up the space around the bolt (his boat was a 1972 V222, if I remember correctly). In the book, Mr Gilbert assumed that a previous owner had installed the smaller bolt instead of the 5/8" bolt that it should have had. However, I found the exact same thing on my 1972 V222 when I changed my pivot bolt 2 weeks ago. My boat has been in the family since the 80's, and my grandfather was the 2nd owner. The original owner disclosed that he had replaced the keel cable, but never the pivot bolt. No one changed the pivot bolt up until I just did it 2 weeks ago, so we know that it was a factory installation. The bolt was a stainless 1/2" bolt with a 3/4" hex and nut.

While upgrading to the 5/8" bolt is easy and recommended, it would be helpful to V22/222 owners to know up-front if they may need to drill---since a 5/8" drill bit isn't a regular household item for most people. So, if I find that multiple owners say that they do have (or have had) the 1/2" pivot bolt on their boat, I will contact BWY with the information so they can update their information. (This survey is in no way is sponsored by Blue Water Yachts)

What I found is that my old 1/2" bolt had a 3/4" hex, while the new 5/8" pivot bolt had a 15/16" hex. Also, my old pivot bolt did not use the cup washers that the new pivot bolts come with.

Please reply with the following information:

Boat model: Venture 22, Venture 222. If 1/2" bolt was found on other models (V23, V24/224, V25), please tell.

Boat Year: 19XX

Pivot Bolt Size: shank size or hex head size


This survey mainly applies to the V22/222, but feel free to share your information if you have a V23, V24/224, or V25 that is or was using the 1/2" pivot pin. This is just to get the information out there to let owners know what to be prepared for. Thank you!

[Pete]

79 V22 with 5/8 pivot bolt

BTW was there a V22 and a V222? What's the difference? Maybe year?

Pete

[ChockFullOnuts22]

I've been told two different things about the difference between the V22 and the V222. The first and most common cited difference is that the V22 had no pop top, whereas the V222 had one. The second thing I've heard is that the early V22 had hull failures, so MacGregor fortified the hulls in the V222. However, I've only heard this from a guy in my marina, and haven't found anything online to substantiate his claim.

I'm not familiar with how long the 2-22 designation lasted. Do you have a pop top on your boat?


Thanks for replying!

[Pete]

If Poptop = V222

Then I have a V222 or is it V2-22 or V-222 .

I love the poptop but not to thrilled about having to hit the '2' key an extra time .

Thanks for the info.
Pete

[ChockFullOnuts22]

Haha, no problem. I've seen it written all three ways.

Your work on your boat is coming along nicely, I have to say. You have the newer-style pop top....smaller and therefore lighter weight than the old ones like mine, which span the whole width of the cabin. Must be a lot more pleasant on your back when you lift it up.

[Pete]

My plan is to install gas springs to help lift it. The pop top is at the fiberglass shop having the under side redone. It had delaminated. That's the only part that I had to send out. I tried several times to fix it but I only made it worse.

Pete

[ChockFullOnuts22]

Gas springs? That's a good idea...I wish I'd thought of that a long time ago! I just may have to try it; thanks for the idea!

[Lloyd Franks]

Gas Springs? Tell us more, please.

[Pete]

Sorry to hijack this thread. Also this has been done before on this forum. I am sure a quick search would turn up something.

Gas spring like what were used to hold hatch backs open, can be used to assist in lifting the pop-top and even hold it up. You can buy them in different lengths and force. My pop top in not installed right now so I can't measure for the springs. Go to www.mcmaster.com and search gas springs. There you will find lengths from 5-36" long and force up to 550 lbs. Your going to have to do a simple sketch to determine the open and closed length of the spring before you order. And force should be a little more then half the weight of the top. Although the spring would be horizontal in the closed position you will probably want some way to secure the top in the down position so it doesn't pop up at an inconvenient time, such as when trailering. This would be a simple mod that would work great.

[Sailing Hamlet]

Related to question of the pivot bolt size, is there a particular "torque" to tighten the keel bolt to? I'm about to replace mine (taking on water from the pivot) and don't know what the guidelines are for getting a good seal with new washers and a bolt.

[Pete]

I just tightened mine untill it felt snug agenst the rubber washers, and I have no leaks. I dont think you want to over tighten it. If it leaks tighten it a little more.

[ChockFullOnuts22]

I snugged mine and went another 3/4 turn. No leaks.

[snotnosetommy]

Can anyone tell me whether or not the 5/8" pivot bolt on an '85 Mac 25 would have a sleeve? I have been assuming the keel would be in direct contact with the bolt. If so, one could attach a cable from the mast bottom to the keel bolt as a ground. Wouldn't be a good idea if there's a non-conducting sleeve.
Thanks.

[Sailing Hamlet]

So I started working on my boat today, and was going to replace the keel pivot and found that a PO has glassed over the original bolt head, and under the nut. I am guessing the he did this in lieu of new rubber washers, maybe? Do you guys think it is worth the risk of breaking away the glass to extract the pivot bolt? Or, should I just grin and bear it and possible leaks? (I know I'm leaking somewhere in the bilge and this would be the logical source...) I've posted a couple of pics http://picasaweb.google.com/SailingHaml ... directlink to show you what I'm talking about. Also, there's an extra hole (the middle one) that doesn't go all the way through the trunk. Any idea what it's for?

[Pete]

you have some strange things going on there. First what is that port hole that looks like an amber light off of the rear fender of a '64 International Tractor? It that the glass over the keel pivot bolt? It looks to far back but maybe not. The hole above that (the one with a sock stuffed in it) should be for the lock down bolt. You have to remove this each time you raise and lower the keel. Why Macgregor did not give access to the other side is beyond me, but you can reach it through the hatch in the dinette seat. Some say your should leave the bolt in and lower the keel if you want the ability to raise it in a hurry, however I don't agree with this and take mine out and leave it out. The top bolt some say it holds a rubber bumper in place, However I don't think that was the case on my boat, but I can't seam to remember what it did. but the rubber bumper was just glued on.

Anyways if you really wanted to get to that bolt you could use a hole saw to cut around the bolt head. Just cut thru the repair and not into the hull. I am sure there is an air gap around the bolt head and you would be able to pop out that plug. but I wonder about the reason behind the repair. You maybe opening a can of worms that might as well be left closed. But if you re like me you will not be able to enjoy the boat until you know whats going on in there.