Arch with Davits, Would you buy it?

[David Mellon]

I'm not sure if this post violates any ethics for this site but... I was talking with my buddy about putting together a new arch with davits for my . We figure a channel aluminum arch with two arms hanging off the back for davits would be a simple solution to the common problem of dinghy stowage. I was thinking that welding would be the way to go but if it were a bolt together design it could be produced easily. If we can design a robust, easily installed kit, would folks buy it? If not, I'll have him weld mine up, pay him in beer and forget about it. But, since he owns a machine shop that makes parts for Mars landers, jet aircraft and the space shuttle he can certainly make more and sell them, the question is, what would be a fair price. Naturally, for him, it would require profit, I would make nothing. But before I suggest he make any I need to be sure they would sell at a reasonable price, including materials, shipping, advertising on this site and profit. As I own a service company I have no experience selling objects and would hate to steer my good friend wrong buy suggesting he produce a product with no market. So, would you buy it, and what is your price point?
If I have crossed any lines, please delete this post.
Dave

[Hamin' X]

I am not a Mod in this forum, but I think that you are OK. Seems like you just want to kick around an idea that might, or might not be marketable. We would hope that if you do decide to market it, that you will advertise on this board.

~Rich

[K9Kampers]

I'm not in the market for the product you're describing, but have thought about different add-on mods of similiar nature. Looking at the proposal from a different angle, I think it would be better to sell an idea to a potential market based on an actual built / functioning prototype, rather than create a market with no product to show. Build one for your boat, show that it works, justify the quality, then figure the price. If the target market doesn't respond favourably figure out why and change that. You seem to focus on price, I'm looking for quality, as I only want to buy it once.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

As an example, here is my arch, made of welded aluminum channel. Roller at top for mast storage, mounts for anchor light, GPS antenna, VHF antenna. Mounts for Life Ring, Life Sling, BBQ, and BBQ table. Tube lifting arm that allows hoisting the dinghy motor from it's transom mount onto the dinghy transom.




No Davits on mine, I think having the dinghy hoisted out back would be too much weight and too hard to deal with, particularly with the X rudders that fold all the way vertical. Plus to really do a dinghy davit right you need a RIB dinghy with hard lifting points inside which is even more weight hanging off the back. I think these are just too big for a Mac, remember the boat is only 7'10" wide. You'd have to have a pretty small dinghy not to have it stick out on each side, particularly with a motor. I prefer my 10' air floor dinghy that can roll up and be stored on the bow.

I have thought about adding a dinghy tow implementation using the arch as the mounting point for the two aluminum tubes that extend out behind the boat. Seems like with some poles, blocks, and line it would be pretty easy to implement, I just haven't had the time.

http://www.dinghy-tow.com/

[Obelix]

I too would have to see the product, get its specifications and pictures how it will be mounted to decide if it would be attractive for me at the asking price.
Generally spoken, I think this could be a great addition to the , if all of the above falls into place.

[Divecoz]

IMHO: It needs to be one piece and bent out of say 1 1/4 " SS Tubing. Not so high or so large that it looks out of place or ...is the way people ID my boat.
The Davit arms need to swing up or out or in, to be out of the way and none noticeable when not on use. I would desire and only buy it if.. it didn't look like fibber mcgee built it for me. It needs to look "made for the boat"

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I must say I am very glad I used aluminum, not SS. The biggest advantage is it is so light weight compared to what a SS arch would be. It also is a much easier material to mount things to, drilling SS can be a chore while aluminum is a piece of cake. Aluminum is also very easy to maintain.

[SkiDeep2001]

Could I hang my Honda 750 V45 Magna MC from it That would be sweet.

[Divecoz]

I must say I am very glad I used aluminum, not SS. The biggest advantage is it is so light weight compared to what a SS arch would be. It also is a much easier material to mount things to, drilling SS can be a chore while aluminum is a piece of cake. Aluminum is also very easy to maintain.

Duane , I sure cannot argue with the success you have had and employed with your boat.
NO doubt drilling is easier with Aluminum and a flat surface is a lot easier / handier to work with as well. Its just personal taste IMHO.
I would like to have a better way of transporting my 9.9 inflatable, without Dragggggggging it or having to take off the motor and hoisting it up on the deck, that's for sure!
I towed my 9.9 over 400 miles this winter and none of it was desirable. On warm sunny days sailing between islands, I was slowed down by dragging that dang inflatable. It affected my sailing and my powering and my maneuvering in tight situations. The dink effected me even more so, when adding that same fresh breeze and currents and or waves... I looked at and thought through, the stand off systems available. But they need to be much longer to allow for the Outboards not to interfere with each other.
I am not finding fault with what you have for you .... just for me. I desire something that will (in my minds eye) be only be a little bigger in diameter and no higher than whats already there . It will need for it to be mounted with greater strength available as well , and ...... with davits folding or sliding out of eye sight, so to speak.
A question I do have is, will a dink raised lengthwise , even with the motor close to the transom effect the boat under sail? When you heel over will that dink flop....to that side and cause me no less than frustration and maybe problems ? I had problems IMHO when following seas and wind , kept causing the dink to bang into the back of my boat. I am not the sailor You and Darren are . I dont need to be raising the sailing bar, even another inch....
I also do not desire , to add yet another idea / modification to my boat and at such an expense as this one would be , only to say in the end #$%^& that didn't work! $$$$$$ Dang now what day is garbage pickup?

[Divecoz]

I went and looked at the website for Dinghy Tow and those boats dont use a big outboard on the back like ours.
A couple showed the dink's in a vertical position..... am I to assume this is only when they are in a slip? I saw a zillion means for the transportation of a dink on my trip. NONE included hauling it in a vertical position. Hummm I am sure most here have tried to move a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the wind...
For easiest towing behind your boat, its a hard dink for sure. James V talked about this , right here on this site, as no doubt others here have confirmed.
I even saw one ingenious fellow who had made a custom bracket for his outboard that kept it in the middle and secure inside on his Fatty Knees.
Fatty Knees Hard Dink $$$$$$
I meant to buy a hard dink , but when the offer was made for a good 9.9 inflatable for $100 , I went cheap and to some extent I am now sorry for that ill conceived savings.

[tangentair]

!	tangentair:
	I do not see anything wrong with this post up to this point, and as mentioned if you and your friend do decide to take it to the next step, it would be appropriate to advertise it here to help support the site.

On a personal note - as always I am keenly aware of the broad expanse of experience along with the acute practical knowledge that Duane brings to the table. Do you make it strong enough to hang a PWC? How will it sail with that hanging there? That said - I would not be interested in arch designed only to hold a dinghie BUT if you were to make a basic arch that could then be used as base for dinghie davits, solar panels, radar, gps, vhf, cell phone and other antenna(s) (what is the plural of antenna - antennii ??? anyway) to which you could add on rear seat curves, a aux. motor mount, a drop down boarding step, swim ladder handle, and fold out arms for a bimini or enclosure depending upon what you wanted to use it for - I would be very interested. Again Duane's point about using aluminum so that it would be easy to add snaps for screens, or screw in a cup holder etc is important.

Now - to digress slightly - but since Hunter "stole" the idea of a power-trailer-sailer from the MAC I would be interested if you and your friend could build an arch that would be not only the base for a dowser but enable the traveler to be moved out of the cockpit, I would really be interested. Then that with the other arch would form a very nice full enclosure.
Ron

[waternwaves]

Ron,

IF the arch is far enough forward to use as a base for a "hunter style" traveler, it takes a lot of metal to get back to the transom to support the dinghy. Are you contemplating more than 2 vertical struts for the arch on each side? or possibly swing davits.?

I have put the dinghy on the transom, just for fit purposes, and clearing the rudders is a pain for motoring. I used qty=3, 2" wide straps to hang it from the stern rails. Sailing with rudders down is fine, as long as the top of the strap is wrapped to the top of the rails. It is nowhere near sturdy enough for normal use tho.

Rich,
when you were towing your inflatable, how long of a lead did you use? Was the front half of the dink out of the water? Like everyone else I am afraid of a long painter towing the dink. So I use about 36" from the sternrails to the dink ring, seems to greatly decrease (eliminate) the bumping, and I can still raise and lower my rudders with ease.

I would like to add the following comments

1) Building a metal arch arrangement, is not the difficult part of this job. Most of the hours are spend mounting backing plates and reinforcements to stiffen and support the cocpit. I am not saying that just anyone can bend aluminum and make it look pretty, however most of this work is getting all of the little piece supports in place and ready, and not interfering with most of the enclosures, biminis, inside liner drilling, blocking, rail clearances etc. The reason not a lot of people do this is primarily all of the detail work required. I would love to have one, but doing it right is expensive in time and finish. This is not a place that is easy to work from the inside of the boat....(especially on my starboard side as the entire waste handling and tanking has to be removed for access.

2) Most of the dinks sized for the mac have 16" tubes and are 64 inches wide or so. From the waterline to the top of my stern rails is about 55 inches. When underway, I have to lift the carried dink 16" off the water to not hit the lower sponson when heeled at 20 degrees. This leaves the top sponson about 2 ft above the top of the rails., and restricts access with the rudder and wears on the .

If someone (other than me) could come up with a system to hold the dink that could clear the rudders easily (single pull cable that would extend the bottom of the dink out and back so as to allow the rudders to drop, I think we would have a winner. The problem is the bow lift by hanging another 100 lbs 30" behind the boat is considerable. You would not be able to cruise and do this. Pretty much would have to stop to move the rudder.

Making the top or back of an arch strong enough to carry a 120 lb dink on a 4 ft moment arm, all the radar, antennas, enclosure, etc....seems like quite a task.

[tangentair]

WW
........ Are you contemplating more than 2 vertical struts ....
I was thinking of 2 seperate arches, one at the stern that added various utilites there and one around the cabin hatchway that would double/triple as a dowser frame, mid-mast support, and get the traveller out of the cockpit. I also agree (although my agreement is of little import) that carrying any weight off the back of the transom will change the sailing, planing under power, and maybe the steering characteristics on the M by shifting the (I forget the correct term) back from the Dagger (don't know about an X). And there is the issue of raising and lowering the rudders/motor.

.......Making the top or back of an arch strong enough to carry a 120 lb dink on a 4 ft moment arm, all the radar, antennas, enclosure, etc....seems like quite a task.
I think so too, which is why I am considering a whisker pole/crane arm arrangement to swing the dink up and onto the bow - when I find I need to take along a dinghie, my daysailing for now does not need it.

There maybe an opportunity here but as so many have mentioned there are some issues to deal with.
Ron

[Highlander]

Hmm, !

Somebody working on stealing my Mod
like this that I posted earlier

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 0009-2.jpg

J

[Highlander]

On a note

I'll be working on this again soon it will incorperate my dowsar enclosure arch to help offset each other & give each one more support & making them dual purpose
As already said the problem is to make it so as it looks like it belongs on the boat & not out of place and follow the design of the boats sleek look I had designed this for my but now it will be going on my but the tall & wide dowsar enclosure is making it a challenge
http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010101.flv

J