If not a MacGregor

[Captain Phoenix]

I am not sure that we are in disagreement at all. The Mac owners will provide you with comments galore, praising the advantages of the boat. They will be as sincere as you will ever hope to get from someone who has already made the choice and picked out a Mac. But you are asking the wrong question, IMHO. Why would Mac owners give you sincere information on boats they have NOT chosen, especially since you insist that they be in the same price range?

It would be like going to an American MacDonald and asking the American customers if they have have any knowledge of an antipasti served in the area at the same price (roughly) that they might like better than they like their hamburgers. Why not asking them directly why they like their hamburgers?

Maybe you are right, my question was supposed to be: Why have you decided to buy the Mac while there was many other used sailboards for the same price of the MAC with wider beam and fix keel which they are seaworthy (Safer and more stable)? is it only because of the traireable option?

[c130king]

Capt Pheonix,

Much better question. My answers...not necessarily in the order of priority...but close I imagine.

1) Price
2) Trailerability (I move every 2 to 3 years and the boat needs to go with me)
3) Ability to keep the boat out of the water...preferably mast-up dry storage at a marina
4) Speed under engine power
5) Sailability...relatively light so very fun to sail
6) Comfort...like having a cabin and "facilities"
7) Price vs. age of boat

Bottom line: I felt this was a great starter boat for a starter (single-handing) sailor. Someday...after I retire, get the last kid through college and stop moving around...I may buy a bigger, slower, fixed-keel, must store in the water at an expensive marina, but more comfortably and (arguably) more safely go cruising the US coast and possibly beyond type sailboat...but the more I read about everyone's fantastic "cruises" in the Mac the more I lean towards keeping my forever.

Cheers,
Jim

[irayone]

I will answer the question .....There are no boats that I know of that can do all that the mac can do. at the price of 35,000.00....Have you sailed one????
2 sleeping berths plus dinette.
You can beach it.
cruise shallow waters to fish swim or surf
Race full speed of 20 kts to your destination
pull water toys
or just sail around
Use it as a camper
travel to destinations and other bodies of water.... drop in....and you don't need a hotel... You have beach front views for free.
Tried and tested by all of us here and Roger Macgregor for the past 30 years.

The only boat that I know of thats the over the top is the Gemini 105 Catamaran 150.000.00 equiped.. new a very fast sailing craft.

[dvideohd]

Well.......

Since no one has mentioned it....

If you go on ebay - craigslist and etc.... and look at the CATEGORIES of sailboats... you will see that commercial RESALE MARKET thinks that there is reasonably strong demand and value in used MACS... it is an EXCELLENT place to see how boats depreciate over time... and to see a measure of relative value = and that is a POWERFUL ELEMENT OF "PRICE".. There are CATEGORIES for Hunters, Catalinas, Morgans.... etc, etc... You can see how the US MARKET values older boats - and that Says A LOT ABOUT THE COST OF UPKEEP - and MAINTAINENCE over time... This process isn't a matter of opinions of folks on the board here.. who of course, are trying to helpfully answer your question....

PRICE is not what you walk off of a car dealer's lot having paid.. its the maintenece, operating, and so forth costs initially and over time... OTHERWISE - we would ALL BE DRIVING YUGOS and TATAs....

I have an older Mac 26D - 1988. My son is working on minor repairs to a 1981 MAC 25. The cost to repair his 25 is on the order of a few hundreds of dollars - and that was due to PO neglect... The point is - THESE BOATS CAN LAST... THEY ARE SIMPLE TO MAINTAIN... the SIMPLICITY really pays off in low maintainence costs... I have seen a number of Mac 26Ds for between 5500 and 9500 $US- and that is for 20 year old + boards.

This HIGH RESALE VALUE should tell you a LOT ABOUT THE LONG term value of the boat... Also a lot about the quality... Nothing is perfect - but - just like the long term resale value of a car will tell you something of the maintainece cost and value - so does the resale value of a boat...

************

You mentioned a new boat.... Obviously, we don't have the long term performance numbers for today's Macs.... But if you - once again - go look at resale value over time - this Decades's Xs and Ms have PERFORMED EXCEPTIONALLY WELL... No POWER BOAT EVEN COMES CLOSE... at least that I know of...

*************

I know number of people with moderate size power boats... They put money into GAS and diesel - when they are on the water at all... I have been putting money into MODs and going places... just no comparison.... I think we ALL KNOW where fuel costs is going....

************

C130king mentioned kids... something simple to learn on is a very good idea... I would rather my kids learn on a Mac than other boats that I have/have had.. Much simpler at the keel boat level.... (I do have another boat in a Marina - it's also a classic...)

***********

If determined to look at other things.. you might consider the Hunter Edge, Compac lines, or a West Wight Potter 19... also very fun boats... It can also matter where you go... in MANY places - things with deep keels means you are going to get stuck or cannot get near the beach - not good for Florida or Texas Coast.
**************

I would not make an assumption that a larger boat is more safe to sail in.. I don't think that is true.. Getting off the water fast - if necessary - is safer... Storing in a marina - well that is hard in a lot of places... Wait Lists at Marinas in the LA area are surreal... Virtually infinite in Santa Barbara.. bad in Orange County... going to get worse as well... That slip at Newport Beach could set you back $75K alone.. so Price -- as was mentioned - comes in a lot of parts.....

*******************

There are European boat variants... of course... but One can apply that same measure of resale value over time to see some idea of the maintainenece cost and market size. I would also recommend to see if another boats USER COMMUNITY is as active - or has the SHEER NUMBER OF NIFTY MODS floating about.. Part of the fun for me is tweaking the boat with Drills, electronics, Epoxy, and so forth... Perhaps 600+ nifty mods floating about.. each useful to the people who did them.. I see very little out there among other boats with such a community doing tweaks... That too is part of the fun...

--jerry

[TAW02]

Capt Phoenix!

You sure have put together a wild and wonderful thread here.

Really reinforces; that of which is why I bought my 26M.

I don't know if a fixed keel type hull will physically support a powersailing configuration. One sort of cancels the other out, wouldn't you think?

Well, no matter. Here is why I personally went with my decision to sail an

1. I can tote and set-up the boat by myself. Includes mast raising.
2. I can launch and retrieve the boat by myself.
3. I have no thru-hulls below the surface of the water to worry about. Thus no bilge water
4. Because of no bilge seepage-no-black mold problems to worry about.
5. Because I can dump my ballast, I can run with the ''big boys" and bring her up on a plane!
6. Because I can hoist my daggerboard (keel) and can beach upon a far-away island and enjoy cooking a hot dog, I can then decide if I wish to sleep aboard the or sleep on this bit of paradise!

I could go on but then you get the picture I suppose by now. These guys on this board have provided copious amounts of notions to which you can ponder.

And if you were to decide to go with the or the , you could always sell the trailer and pocket some cash

Big T

[Captain Phoenix]

....and the Winner is the MAC 26....

Thanks for all your replies...

I've spent the last month doing research by calling all manufacturers and some owners to select the right power sailboat, I talked to Odin - Imexus from Poland http://imexusyachts.com/english, The Hunder edge company, the Mach28 from Australia http://www.mackmanboats.com.au/mackman% ... mach28.htm and the Mac company.

I think the Mac is the winner. all other boats are similar to the Mac X in terms of design but no one is like the M.

For the price, the Mac is the best and even loaded with accessories it will stay cheaper than their basic price.

This is part of the email sent from Imexus from poland:

The Imexus 28 is only similar to MacGregor 26 but it is completely diffrent (better) boat. It is very strong boat that has much better hardware, more stable, equipped in true nautical equipment (mast, sails), bigger cabin made in true wood, bigger toilet etc...
The Imexus 28 is much easier to go forward on and live-aboard is much better.
The list of advantages and disadventages which noticed our customer.

Imexus 28: Basic Price is 25,000 Euro without the trailer (3,500$) and without the engine.
bigger cockpit and more interior space, larger front and rear berth
better interior, more woodwork
storage space for bootles in the table
adjustable backstay
adjustable shrouds
better finish
fully enclosed head compartment with sink and with space porta potti
centerboard automatically tilts if underwater object is hit
two version of this boat: outboard engine max 115 HP and inboard engine 130 HP
more stable hull
lockable closets in the cockpit
strong cockpit steering wheel mount (molded to the boat)
stiff mattresses and upholtery (seat cushins)
The transom is great place for swimming, diving, fishing


MacGregor 26:
less options are included in the base price
only main sail is included (no headsail)
no backstay (how welli s the mast supported) ..... Any comments here ?/
smaller front and back berth
no real head compartment
less storage space (especially above galley)
daggerboard can break, if underwater object is hit ...... are they correct?
very soft upholstery
little storage space in the cockpit, no boxes which can be closed an locked
only 50 HP outboard engine
cockpit steering wheel moun only screewed to the boat, seems to get easily


All other boats are much more expensive.

[pokerrick1]

First of all you can have the factory install a 60HP OB, not max 50 - - -and MANY have had even bigger engines installed - - - not by the factory - - if you do a search there will be MUCH info on size of OB on Macs.

Regarding damage to daggerboard - - - yes it can be damaged but you have to hit it PRETTY HARD! I was in a marina in San Felipe, BC, Mexico where the tides were HUGE and the middle of the channel all but disappeared at low tide. Before I learned EXCATLY where to navigate out of the channel at low tide, I had one of those "Oh, Oh" moments when I had the daggerboard fully down (for steering) and I struck the bottom pretty hard at about 3 to 4 MPH and it stopped the boat!

I pulled the boat and examined the daggerboard and found zero damage. I won't say it can't be damaged, but you have to hit it pretty hard IMHO. Certainly the same kind of damage can occur to a keel boat.

"No real head compartment" - - - I don't understand this comment -- - the M has a reasonable head compartment for the size of boat (with door), and many owners have made easy mods to the head which have made them most useable (see mod section).

For it's price, the Mac is hard to beat - - - and what a great idea was posted above - - - sell the trailer and get some bucks back (especially if you are buying new and get the aluminum trailer). Should be VERY easy to sell!

Rick

[dennisneal]

Captain Phoenix,

It seems to me that you are in the same position as a European Football fan who goes to Manchester, England and asks:

"Is there a better team than Manchester United??"
"How about Barcelona??"

You are among a group of MacGregor owners who love their boats and spend a considerable amount of time discussing their boats on the internet.

I spent a lot of time studying sailboats before selecting my Mac. I think a Mac is the best boat for my purposes. I know several owners who never take their boat out of the water. My boat spends 80% of its time on the trailer, as I keep it at home.

The Mac is not an expensive boat to purchase, or maintain. It is a relatively safe boat. It will not sink. It is easy to operate. You may wish to view the factory's video at:

http://www.macgregor26.com/index/55_min_from_avi.htm

The boat has a large amount of interior space and headroom for a 26 footer.

It can handle a 60HP outboard, which means that if a storm is on the horizon, you can make it back to a marina in a few minutes.

I could go on, but you've already read many responses.

Dennis

[Québec 1]

Good choice and here are my 2 cent worth!!!

....and the Winner is the MAC 26....




no backstay (how welli s the mast supported) ..... Any comments here ?/
Works real well with no backstay...Roger was right in designing a no back stay mast system
smaller front and back berth
no real head compartment
less storage space (especially above galley)
daggerboard can break, if underwater object is hit ...... are they correct?
Dagger board broke cause I hit a cement pier with it and 5 days latter , for under 400$ I had a new one delivered! No damage to the boat ...and I consider it a 400$ trainning program which I passed with 100%
very soft upholstery
little storage space in the cockpit, no boxes which can be closed an locked
only 50 HP outboard engine
cockpit steering wheel moun only screewed to the boat, seems to get easily...Works okay after 5 years so...1


All other boats are much more expensive.

[Captain Phoenix]

Captain Phoenix,

It seems to me that you are in the same position as a European Football fan who goes to Manchester, England and asks:

"Is there a better team than Manchester United??"
"How about Barcelona??"

You are among a group of MacGregor owners who love their boats and spend a considerable amount of time discussing their boats on the internet.

I spent a lot of time studying sailboats before selecting my Mac. I think a Mac is the best boat for my purposes. I know several owners who never take their boat out of the water. My boat spends 80% of its time on the trailer, as I keep it at home.

The Mac is not an expensive boat to purchase, or maintain. It is a relatively safe boat. It will not sink. It is easy to operate. You may wish to view the factory's video at:

http://www.macgregor26.com/index/55_min_from_avi.htm

The boat has a large amount of interior space and headroom for a 26 footer.

It can handle a 60HP outboard, which means that if a storm is on the horizon, you can make it back to a marina in a few minutes.

I could go on, but you've already read many responses.

Dennis

Well, I am working to get the dealership to our area in the Mediterranean sea and I am preparing myself for all the questions that we might get from potential customers.

Thanks again for your comments.

[tangentair]

The best way to answer the questions is from experience, when I spoke with my dealer, I could tell from his voice that he wasn't trying to over come objections, rather he was giving practical advice based upon his own use of his boat. He talked me out of things that would encumber my begining experience - a roller furler when I would be trailering and launching daily and into other things like lines lead aft and the right sails for our wind conditions. You want a real guarentee for success for your dealership - buy a demo and bring Bill from Boats 4 sail over for a couple of weeks to show you how to set it up, what works and what doesn't, and be sure you video tape, he drops pearls of wisdom faster than you can pick them up.

[dvideohd]

To those potential customers....

you could email them - or prepare - a list of the Mac resources that people have put together on their own... the MODs, owner web sites, forums, etc, etc, etc... these are NOT things that come from MacGregor... but there are surreal resources out there....

People want to research.. a simple resource page could be the trick to selling a lot of boats...

Might be something for an individual to do as well.... you know.. in all of our free time... between midnight and 2AM... :>

--jerry

[Captain Phoenix]

....and the Winner is the MAC 26....

Thanks for all your replies...

I've spent the last month doing research by calling all manufacturers and some owners to select the right power sailboat, I talked to Odin - Imexus from Poland http://imexusyachts.com/english, The Hunder edge company, the Mach28 from Australia http://www.mackmanboats.com.au/mackman% ... mach28.htm and the Mac company.

I think the Mac is the winner. all other boats are similar to the Mac X in terms of design but no one is like the M.

For the price, the Mac is the best and even loaded with accessories it will stay cheaper than their basic price.

This is part of the email sent from Imexus from poland:

The Imexus 28 is only similar to MacGregor 26 but it is completely diffrent (better) boat. It is very strong boat that has much better hardware, more stable, equipped in true nautical equipment (mast, sails), bigger cabin made in true wood, bigger toilet etc...
The Imexus 28 is much easier to go forward on and live-aboard is much better.
The list of advantages and disadventages which noticed our customer.

Imexus 28: Basic Price is 25,000 Euro without the trailer (3,500$) and without the engine.
bigger cockpit and more interior space, larger front and rear berth
better interior, more woodwork
storage space for bootles in the table
adjustable backstay
adjustable shrouds
better finish
fully enclosed head compartment with sink and with space porta potti
centerboard automatically tilts if underwater object is hit
two version of this boat: outboard engine max 115 HP and inboard engine 130 HP
more stable hull
lockable closets in the cockpit
strong cockpit steering wheel mount (molded to the boat)
stiff mattresses and upholtery (seat cushins)
The transom is great place for swimming, diving, fishing


MacGregor 26:
less options are included in the base price
only main sail is included (no headsail)
no backstay (how welli s the mast supported) ..... Any comments here ?/
smaller front and back berth
no real head compartment
less storage space (especially above galley)
daggerboard can break, if underwater object is hit ...... are they correct?
very soft upholstery
little storage space in the cockpit, no boxes which can be closed an locked
only 50 HP outboard engine
cockpit steering wheel moun only screewed to the boat, seems to get easily


All other boats are much more expensive.

From MacGregor:

The Imexus is substantially heavier both under sail and on a trailer, and is significantly more expensive. I would be leery of the claim that it is “more stable” as the last time I looked fixed ballast was an option rather than standard.

Because it is so much heavier it requires much more horsepower from the engine, which costs a lot more.

The Imexus was originally almost an exact copy of our prior model, which we replaced with the better MacGregor 26M. After copying the original boat they “improved” it by increasing weight and cost and reducing performance in the process.

[AWKIII]

I really think including the Imexus and Mach 28 in the discussion is fruitless.

I know and have spent time with the owners of both companies.

The Mach 28 is a nice boat but it is out of production. The tooling still exists and I have tried to get Phil to sell it to me. The last time I talked with him he was attempting to determine the viability of having the boat built in Asia. I have had experience with the Chinese and can only say that I wouldn't own a boat if it originated from there.

The Imexus is still in production but I would have some reservations about buying one. The company has gone through several lawsuits and owners. The newest owner is a decent enough guy. He contacted us about distributing the boat here in the U.S.. There is a couple of reasons why the boat is as expensive as it is. One is the strength of the Euro and the other is simply the fact that they can only produce a handful of boats each year. I don't recall what the number is but it was less than 25 when I last spoke to Mario.

The one boat that is out there that seldom gets mentioned is the Hake/Seaward 26. This is a gorgeous, well-built trailerable sailboat. It is a little on the pricey side but it has a lot of features which are pretty unique.

The bottom line is if your boat budget is paramount to your decision, then a new Mac the way to go. If you have a little more play, then the Hunter and Hake are worth a look.

Art

[tangentair]

......the boat built in Asia. I have had experience with the Chinese and can only say that I wouldn't own a boat if it originated from there.........
Art

I ran 3 joint ventures in China that refurbished used x-ray and cat scanners for 6 years and then consulted with them for the next 4 years. I would not have any higher expectation of the quality of a Chinese boat that I do of a MAC built on Monday or Friday. That is why it was important to me to buy from a reputable dealer who understands the issues and is prepared to fix the factory "mistakes". I was going to say that - I am not romanticizing the Chinese workers but remember what happened to the manager of the baby formula factory, and what happened to the peanut factory management??? - but that is a discussion for the backroom, so I will only say that demonizing the third world will not improve the quality of American products be they boats, cars or financial institutions.