Need help installing radio/stereo

[c130king]

Fellow Mac Mod'ers,

I plan to install a VHF radio and marine stereo in the near future...when I get back to my boat in the U.S. So I am hoping one of my fellow Mac Mod'ers can help a guy out and give me some measurements so that I can order my personal wood-working slave (er...I mean associate...aka Dad) to make me a wooden "base" that I need.

My plan is to install a wooden "base" on the ceiling of the boat, port side above the window, to which I will install the radio and stereo. I will mount the wooden "base" by either glue/epoxy or figure out a way to screw/bolt it to the ceiling. Then I will install the radio and stereo side-by-side kinda/sorta hanging down from their external mounts.

Here is the picture from the Mac website. You can see the area above the rear window.



What I need to know is for an :

1) Is that area flat?

2) How wide is that area?

Not sure of the exact size I need yet, I will have my Dad look at the dimensions of the external mounts...but I am thinking something along the lines of the 8-10" wide and 20-24" long. Smooth/rounded edges and stained to the same color as my new table and hatch boards.

Appreciate any assistance in these measurements.

Thanks,
Jim

[Paul S]

If you are going to mount it on the ceiling, the tan liner has a gap so I guess you could mount some sort of backing plate or t-nut behind the liner and mechanically fasten it to the liner, as well as use some sort of adhesive. The only thing with mounting to the cabin top the stress when trailering it, it will be bouncing all around putting stress on the fiberglass (which isnt overly thick). Is it possible, sure. But to get the wire to the mast base (assuming you are going to install it mast top) will be a bit tricky. If you are going the powerboat antenna on the side of the boat (not my personal choice) then you will be fine.

I mounted mine above my galley (above your seat in the later models). I liked this because it was easy to run the antenna wire to the mast (my antenna is mast top). This radio has a remote mic which is nice to use in the cockpit.

[c130king]

Paul,

Thanks. I considered that spot but I am going to go with an arch mounted antenna. Have other plans for the area where you have your radio.

But good info on the liner. Don't remember exactly what that area is like. But I will ensure that it is capable of supporting the radio and stereo when trailering. I could cut a hole big enough to get some backside support in there and then cover it up with the wooden base.

Still thinking this one over but I need to get my Dad busy with a couple of wooden items I need before he sells his house and looses his work shop...they have this grand plan of selling the house and buying a big Class A motor home and travelling the country.

Cheers,
Jim

[Paul S]

maybe to help support the board... remove some of the bolts holding the sliding hatch track and replacing them with longer bolts through the board. Ensure you have a spacer from the board to the deck so it tightens correctly. Nice thing is - no new holes (just re-bed the ones you remove)

[c130king]

Will definitely look into that idea. But still need those dimensions.

Thanks,
Jim

[tangentair]

1) Is that area flat? - no, it is a mutli deminisional curve - that is it curves in the x,y, and z axis

2) How wide is that area? - you can make it with a 10 or 8 inch board or even a 12 incher but the problem will be to either shape the board or fill it in from behind, you could also stand it away from the ceiling using shims/washers and then put an edge around the wood with 1/4 inch strips - they would be much easier to shape, just cut a cardboard template and lay it on the strips and if you stand off about 1/4 to 1/2 inch from the ceiling, you have a place to stuff the wires back into after you strain relief them where they come through the ceiling

Not sure of the exact size I need yet, I will have my Dad look at the dimensions of the external mounts...but I am thinking something along the lines of the 8-10" wide and 20-24" long. Smooth/rounded edges and stained to the same color as my new table and hatch boards.

Appreciate any assistance in these measurements.

Remember you will have things hanging in your face over the area where you might wash dishes, prepare food, and cook. You are also putting unintentional hand holds for anyone coming down the ladder or working their way back to it in rough seas.

[c130king]

no, it is a mutli deminisional curve - that is it curves in the x,y, and z axis

Remember you will have things hanging in your face over the area where you might wash dishes, prepare food, and cook. You are also putting unintentional hand holds for anyone coming down the ladder or working their way back to it in rough seas.

Ron,

Excellent info, thanks. I was afraid that the area wasn't flat...couldn't remember and couldn't tell from the picture. But I think I will go ahead with the wooden base and do as you recommend and see if I can figure out a way to off-set it from ceiling and fill in the gap somehow.

As to the issue of interfering with the galley...don't think that will be an issue for me. But I will check that out before I drill any holes. Also, not too worrried about the "unintentional hand holds"...but once again I will look at the angles and dangles when I get back. For now I will have my Dad fab the wooden base and then figure it all out once I get back.

My other thought was to actually build a box all the way around the radio and stereo with just the front panel open but not sure that would help anyway.

I could put in the same general area on the starboard side but then it seems as if it would be in the way of aft dinnette seat. And it seems as if it would be easier to route the power cables if it is on the same side as the electrical panel.

Thanks again,
Jim

Thanks again,
Jim

[Terry]

Real nice Job Paul!
That is a tricky place to install anything because it is not a 90 degree angle, on mine (2003M) it is 105 degrees. I am in the process of cutting a hole exactly where yours is but mine is for a marine stereo. I had to make a little platform that is raised 15 degrees to make up for 105 degrees in order to have the stereo facia flush against the bulkhead. I have already cut too high so now I have to put a shim of some sort under the platform and unit to raise it a bit. Fortunately the hole is only started and still requires expanding to 7" X 2" so I have a bit of room to play, but it is still very challenging. My VHF is mounted under the electrical panel for easy hook up, there was only a strong bracket to install, no biggy. There are still four speakers to install and now that I have discovered how difficult it is to cut a perfect hole in the fiberglass anywhere I am getting cold feet, but I can't turn back now. I'll put two speakers on the bulkheads either side of the forward hatch there, seems like a good idea, then I'll put two more opposite each other across the cabin sole under each port/starboard seat about amidships right near the daggerboard trunk. The cavities there should provide a good speaker cabinett. I'll figure out the wiring part later. Whish me luck on the speaker hole cuts.

[tangentair]

Jim
The biggest problem I had with all 3 of our sailboats was hearing the vhf that was mounted inside the cabin. Oh yes there are VHF with remote speakers and remote mikes but I never felt the need to spend the bucks for them. I ran a speaker from the cabin mounted vhf back to the steering area and that gets me by OK since I seldom have a need to talk with anyone - its not like flying IFR rules. So you might want to also consider adding a remote speaker and running the wires when you are building things out.
Ron

[c130king]

Ron,

Copy that. To be honest I have sailed on 4 other "bigger" sailboats in my various sailing courses (ASA and RYA) and all 4 had an inside mounted VHF with no external speakers. I do have a handheld for use in the cockpit if I need it. And I am considering getting a radio that I can upgrade with remote mic (and speaker) if I think it is necessary.

But as I will just about completely "re-wire" my boat I will be able to figure out how to run a wire to an external speaker if necessary.

Thanks,
Jim

[c130king]

Another question. This one relating to stereo and speaker installation.

If I was to install the stereo on the port side how would be the best way to run a speaker wire to the starboard side? Where can you run a wire across the ceiling?

Thanks,
Jim

[tangentair]

I was never able to fish a thin snake across the ceiling - still it may be possible - but I was able to snake across the front of the cockpit hatch opening using the access where the port power panel is and under the circular mirror on the starboard side, I may have removed a few of the bolt hole covers to "see" things also. You might be able to force something across near the daggerboard well if you remove that little mirror there and feed from the center across and down the side wall. The hardest wire I found that I could run was up the starboard side near the forward dinette seat into the area just above the seat, you can access it by dropping the formica covered "head" board. If you remove the foam - you have a large area for mounting recessed electronics, etc. The best thing I found to snake wires with was the aluminum wire that my daughter used for clay statue support, it was about 1/8 thick stiff but moldable available at an art supply store. I also use a piece of very flat (maybe 3 thousandths or matchbox cover thick) 3/8 inch wide grounding strip about 8 feet long. It will go through places that my electrician's snakes both flat and round will not.

[Hardcrab]

The sure-fire, works every time it's tried method is to take the same route the house feed takes from the battery to the electrical panel, draped behind the port liner to the very stern, then down into the aft bilge, over to the starboard liner then up along to where ever.

Other than that route, I have made a simple power wire routing from the panel, down the port companionway side, across the ladder area, up the starboard companionway side to the small round mirror area. It does effectivley cross the boat using the liner plugs removed to help steer and hook.

Another trick I've used with limited success is a metal washer on say 50lb mono and a strong magnet to blindly pull the washer and string along behind the liner to be a "pull" line for the real wires.
Sometimes it will hang up on some roughness, but back up and steer around.
When it works, it's pretty a slick method.

(Side note: If one goes through the trouble to pull something in, look ahead and always incorporate a new "fish" line in the wire mix for the next time.)



I'd agree with others that your proposed location has a lot of possible down side, (location, construction, wire routing) but little offered for any obvious up side.
I'd think about lost headroom in the very place sporting the most headroom.

[c130king]

I don't know...I don't really think I will have a head room issue or a hand-hold issue if I mount my radio and stereo on the port side. But what I do have is all my wiring between my S1 Wheel pilot, VHF/DSC (including the NMEA feed from my GPS to the radio and the S1 computer), antenna mounted on the arch, Stereo, and my new Fuse Panel all on the port side...which seems to simplify things a good bit IMHO.

The only thing that I will need to run to the starboard side is a speaker wire...depending on where/what I decide to do with my speakers...still mulling that issue over.

So, assuming I do go this route, I have another question about running a wire to a stereo speaker. If I decide to route the speaker wire from stereo (near the electrical panel on the port side) back to the stern and across the stern steering rod area and then under the liner up to, say, the area above the head, that would mean probably around 25'...but all wiring would be out of site.

How far is "too far" to wire a speaker?

Thanks,
Jim

[Hamin' X]

How far is "too far" to wire a speaker?

Thanks,
Jim

That depends upon how much power (wattage) that you will be trying to pull through the wire. For the standard wire that comes with stereos, usually about 22 ga, and figuring average power, it is probably too long a run. Go to the hardware store and get some 16 ga zipcord, or use light weight lamp cord and you will be fine.

~Rich