California to Hawaii?

[brent]

I've been trying to find a good trailerable sailboat. So far this search has turned up nothing since the suggestions for boats were all transportable rather than trailerable. I need the boat to be ramp launchable so none of the boats suggested would work. For example, the Contessa 26 can't be ramp launched with 3' of draft.

The Glen-L website claims that the Glen-L 25 has sailed to Hawaii from California. The MacGregor 26 seems like a better boat than the Glen-L 25. However, other people have insisted that taking a MacGregor 26 from California to Hawaii would be somewhere between foolhardy and insane. However, when pressed, the criticisms seem to turn vague. For example, one complaint was that the boat sets too high out of the water and therefore has too much "windage". Even if windage is a genuine problem on this boat I can't see how it would have any effect with a following wind. Presumably this would be the case when sailing west with the trade winds. There have been equally vague complaints about the boat's strength and stability. For example, one person insisted that the hull was weak even though it is obviously designed to take the pounding of planing with 50HP. And, I don't know how unstable the boat could be when the empty boat will right itself from 90 degrees without water ballast (26M).

Other complaints seem to center around the boat's size although I can't see how any other 26' boat with 8' beam would be much larger inside. This pretty much leaves the boat's lightness which would mean a bit more bobbing in the waves than a heavier boat. So, would a trip to Hawaii and back be insane or would it be possible? Most of my sailing would be on lakes or along the coast but I would like to have the option.

[Frank & Meg]

Are you by chance the same Brent recently posting the same question to the Trailer Sailor board ?

If so, for the benefit of current board members, I'd like to point out this comment from the TSB that typifies the results of that Brent's threads

http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/mac ... read/19877

Kinda Mighetto-ish

Apologies in advance if you're not the same guy...

Frank

[jklightner]

I suppose it can be done. I have thought about it, wondering if it is indeed "doable" or just an expensive way to commit suicide. There was a guy who sailed a lanteen rigged lifeboat from San Francisco to Hawai'i ( the Frisco Felucca II, (wonder what happened to #1?) plus others who have sailed lifeboats across the Atlantic. I guess it would boil down to your level of experiance, preparation, and how big a pair you have hangin'.



I keep teasing my sister who still lives back on the farm on the Big Island that I'm going to sail into Hilo Bay and call her up to come give me a ride home.

[Terry]

On another thread someone posted this site for an alternative to the Mac
http://www.tidemarine.com/ it is still in prototype stage and may be in production next spring. It will set you back a lot more money but will also meet your criteria.

[Mark Prouty]

Question:

So, would a trip to Hawaii and back be insane or would it be possible?

Answer:
Not a very good idea IMHO.

Try this:

pacific ocean

Changing connotation of reply

[TampaMac]

A MAC 26x isn't made for ocean passages but that really don't mean much.

If you are looking for an uneventful passage of complete safety look elsewhere.

But I believe it is fully possible to take one around the world if you want. It certainly is better than many boats people have sailed across the Atlantic and Pacific.

MAC hulls are light but I have never heard of one that broke due to wind and or waves.

As far as the rigging is concerned.... I broke my mast on a piling the day before a tropical storm hit. The spreader was completely broke. The mast was bent.

The only things holding the rigging up was the forestay, the backstay, and the short stays. None of them were particularly tight. In spite of a pounding by gusts up to 70 mph and etc. NO ADDITIONAL DAMAGE.

Yeah the ocean gets rough - so what? When it gets rough being in an Aircraft Carrier won't guarantee your safety.

So if you are somewhat foolish, and a bit of a thrill seeker, go for it. I'm still toying with the idea of taking mine to Cancun from Tampa... that is about 600 miles along a route that is mostly near shore. I will definitely ensure that my rigging is beefed up and the boat is prepared but I think it would be easy. The biggest problem in my mind is getting three to four weeks off work.

[kevin carroll]

Been caught in what (remember San Diego spoiled) I refer to as rough seas 3 foot waves and bobbing up and down for a few hours gets very tiring, can't imagine sailing to HI, even if you could 'technically' make it.

Yes people have sailed in 'less seaworthy boats' but the flip side is people have also sailed in 'more' seaworthy' boats and have gone to Davy Jones Locker.

The Gemini 105Mc would be my choice for sailing to HI, only 32 feet, small enough to manuever, big enough for the rough seas and fast sailer. The designer recently sailed Atlantic to England and had a great expereicnce.

Kevin Carroll
'Jump the Shark'
01 26X
San Diego, CA

[Tony D-26X_SusieQ]

Not sure I want to go down this road again. It seems that we go here about twice a year and it sometimes gets a little heated. Anything is possible if Neptune and Poisiden are on your side. Not so sure you could get an insurance company to go along with the plan though. I have been eyeing that Norfolk to Bermuda run myself. 117* and 650 miles later and you should be there. Of course there is that harbor entrance thing to deal with so it helps to have someone aboard who has piloted that harbor before. Oh yea! Don't forget the Gulf Stream. I hear that can be a little rambunctious at times.

[brent]

Yes, I am the same person actually. I hope this thread doesn't deteriorate into personal attacks although I can see that it is off to a good start in that direction.

1. TrailerSailor - This forum's biggest problem is that posts can neither be deleted nor edited. Several times I would post something and then realize that I had a typo, could have worded it better, or the tone was wrong. I tried posting followups but invariably someone would post after only having read the first post. I decided to give up on that format.

2. I have very little knowledge about sailboats. I've never seen a Contessa 26, Albin Vega, or MacGregor 26 in person. I don't own a MacGregor and have no reason to be a cheerleader for the company.

3. I've asked these questions in many forums and the responses are often contradictory. For example some have insisted that the 26's are fragile and would fall apart in heavy seas while owners have said that they have ridden out storms in the boats. Supposedly, one couple went through a hurricane on one. I'm still trying to figure out who to believe.

4. I don't really care for responses based on feelings, intuition, gut-reaction, or other vague impressions. For example, one author reviewing a 26 said that he could imagine the upper deck bolts pulling out like a zipper. However, he didn't say why. He didn't say if he thought the bolts were too small, the reinforcing plates too weak, or the deck was too thin. I'm inclined to view his remark more as personal preference than anything factual.

5. Typical threads ran like this:

Me: Could you sail to Hawaii on a 26?
Poster: I sure as hull wouldn't do it!
Me: Why not?
Poster: A 26 isn't suitable.
Me: Why isn't it suitable? Would the hull break, would the mast or rigging fail, would it be unable to keep the water out, or would it capsize? What specifically is wrong with it?
{generally at this point the response is one of three}
1. Elitist: If you knew more about sailing you'd understand.
2. Impatient: How many times do you have to be told that the 26 isn't suitable?
3. Dismissive: Go ahead, hee, hee. It's your funeral.

As far as my posts ressembling someone else's, I doubt that is the case. Water ballast is a compromise to make a boat with shoal draft that is light enough to trailer; why pretend otherwise? 50HP seems to me to be a lot of dead weight on a cruise. I would think 8-15 HP would do, in other words, enough to reach maximum hull speed without planing. I'm also not concerned about racing classes. I don't believe that the MacGregor 26 is the ultimate sailboat; I'm just trying to find out if it is good enough. For example, would such a passage be about safe as in, say, an Albin Vega or Merit 25?

[Tony D-26X_SusieQ]

It depends a lot on your comfort level. This boat was not designed to make a cruse that far out into the Pacific but that does not mean it will fall apart on the trip. I would not try it simply because I could not stand to be on a boat that small for that long a cruse. Even single handing it would be a real chalange to stow enough food, water and gear in a mac in order to make the trip. Then look at the size of the Santa Maria that Chris used to cross the Atlantic not even knowing there was another side of that ocean. Most people, quick with their replies, would not make that trip on any size boat so don't let them dampen your enthueisim. If your goal is to try it in a mac go for it but if your main goal is to sail to Hawaii then buy the most seaworthy boat you can afford. A good captain always has the safety of the crew in mind.

[Frank & Meg]

Hey Brent -

Try takin' a look at this thread

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/in ... topic=2833

You'll find that some of it is about racing and you'll find several foul-mouthed sailing "elitists" but it is a lengthy and comprehensive discussion of the Mac from hard core sailing types. Wading through that thread combined with your responses on TSBB and here, you should be able to finally form a conclusion about your quest to sail a Mac to Hawaii.

Also, try http://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/murrelet.htm for a kindred spirit in the "Bluewater Mac" circles.

Good luck,

Frank

[jklightner]

I've kicked this idea around the back of my mind for a bit, but I always come back to the simple fact you can't put 25 lbs of sh*t in a 10 lb bag.
You'd either have to carry a bunch of water, or have a water maker. A water maker uses X number of watts. So do all the other goodies people like to take on such a journey. Refrigeration, GPS, (and backup) radios ( and backups) computer (and backups). Lifeboat, EPIRB, 25 mm flares, the list can get long, expensive and heavy. How are you going to generate enough power to keep everything charged up? Wind, solar, run the engine? How much gas to carry, cooking fuel, spare parts, tools. If you start adding all that up, it can be rather extensive. Now myself, something of that magnitude, I would try and think of everything, throw in a safety factor of 1.5 (plus a fudge factor). Things break, storms can blow you off course, you may be going slower than you figured. I feel the boat itself is strong enough, but I would want to beef up the rigging. After all, who wants to lose their last ring ding 1,500 miles from shore? And don't forget a spare set of sails. But that is me. You may be the kind of person that figures on stowing a bunch of cases of Spam, water bottles, and a sextant to get you there. The early Polynesians made it to Hawai'i without even a sextant, who's to say you can't. Call me chicken, or cautious, I don't think I would do it. But if you do, the last 2 lines of Kipling's poem Gunga Din comes to mind.

[Timmy Z]

Ive owned my Mac for a few years now and had it out in small craft warnings, just to see how she handled. She did fine two miles off shore for a few hours. The Mac isnt designed to be a racing or offshore sailboat. They are the best at what they are designed for, a decent sailing craft and a decent motor craft light enough to be trailered. The rigging is light and backed with washers. Not that this is a bad thing, just light. Don try to make it was it isnt. It can be done, Ive read of a guy who took his West Write Potter 19 to Hawaii but if conditions get rough, you will wish you had a Pacific Seacraft under you.

Tim

PS I love my boat.

[craiglaforce]

Get a copy of "The seaworthy offshore sailboat". Read it. Then take a look at the boats you are considering. It has a very good checklist of boat qualities needed along with the reasoning behind it. The 26X or M did not even come close to a passing score for ocean crossings beyond an accurate fair weather report.

A few weak points that are not easily upgraded are the rudders which believe me when I say they will break in anything close to a storm, wild wild wild motion in big waves (wild), no storm jib or inner forestay., rigging is just too light duty for heavy work, walls are very thin (paper thin in spots), centerboard also a bit light duty and very narrow which pretty much kills the ability to heave-to, as a passive storm tactic, outboard motors are not a good choice for ocean crossings (an exposed gasoline engine sitting 1 foot above the waterline is going to get dunked and quit working). The windows are too big and might break out, there is no bridge deck, the boat is pretty small and will limit ability to carry all the water, fuel, food, spares, sails, tools, clothes, needed.

A few questions:
How are you going to maintain a watch 24 hrs a day for such a trip? Can you sleep while being thrown about? When it is raining, do you plan to stand outside in a raincoat or sit inside the cabin with the hatch shut choking on stale humid air? What is steering when you are inside? how long is that autopilot going to work? Need electricity and several spare units. Can you fit an emergency rudder? You will need several spares. Can you fit windvane steering? Life raft?, Radar? genset? Ham or SSB radio?

There, I tried to give you some objective reasons.
Its a fine boat for a bay, or limited coastal work in decent weather, not ocean crossings.

[Tony D-26X_SusieQ]

As I said earler, this boat was not designed for offshore. However, neither were a lot of boats that have made long ocean passages. Some people love taking it to extreems. And then we all know that just 2 miles off shore you enter the extreem storm zone where there is never any type of weather other than the perfect storm.