A New 33' Quasi Mac?

[K9Kampers]

ROAD -

That pic is an actual Bridgeport work table, may be nearly 12" wide, and VERY heavy - it is NOT the actual track, but merely the idea inspiration. Think also in terms of wall racking systems. The right extrusion track and bolt system can be very light and secure. Here is a pic of a T-Track extrusion for a wall rack. A best pic for this boat application will take some searching to find, but it is the idea that I'm describing here.

[Richard O'Brien]

It may not take anything more complicated than a bit of fiberglass protruding to satisfy the desire to customize. The most frustrating thing that occurred to me when I wanted to work on my new M was nothing to bolt into. There was only the anticipation of drilling clear through the side of the hull. Most boats have the hull, and then an inner hull, or liner. The inner hull has pre-molded settees, bunks, head enclosures, and so on. Is that how many of us see it?

I would like to have the option of customizing at least some of these features. The question might be :Is it practical to accommodate the do it yourself crowd, and will this appeal to the "Transformers" generation of new buyers? Let's see if Duane comes up with?

[ROAD Soldier]

Hey if you wand to make the inner hull as thick as the outer hull and leave everything else open minus your premolded front v-berth and aft-berth (if you absolutely have to) that will work for me. I could then add what ever connections I want, for what ever equipment I want, without having to back it up with extra fiberglass, aluminum, or cutting board material. That would be a nice change of pace. No for as how many do it yourselfers this would attracted all I have to say is find someone on this board that has not done one single mod to his/her boat and just left it pure stock. I bet you would be hard pressed to find that person. Anyone who has owned their boat for 6 months or more probable has already done a mod to it.

[ralphk]

Richard:

I've finally added the 2 foot steps and fine-tuned the dimensions of the V - berth:


I had kind of envisioned that interested parties would download this line diagram as a template and then add simple shapes to represent the head, galley, table etc.
The image is a .jpg so is universally accessible for anyone to add simple geometric shapes.

Once the forum comes up with a consensus (or two), I'd be happy to draw them to scale in CAD to confirm that the space actually works.

Maybe, Art you could restate how you expected this cabin layout exercise to unfold?





Ralph k
Hakuna Matata

PS
Flickr does work if you post the URL to the photopage first, then the image.

[Richard O'Brien]

Richard:

I've finally added the 2 foot steps and fine-tuned the dimensions of the V - berth:


I had kind of envisioned that interested parties would download this line diagram as a template and then add simple shapes.





Ralph k

Yes, that would be great Ralph. I've always been wary of sketching on other people's drawings, but at your invitation I can make some picture objects, and use them as you've suggested.

Many thanks, Richard

[Gravydon]

So is this going to happen, Because after the first of the year i am going to buy a mac if your not going to build this boat. I would like to have a 33footer rather than a 26 but i want to be able to sail the columbia river/ puget sound and hopefully drive to forida and sail the bahamas in 2 years my dream vacation.

And how fast will it motor . I hear it is 90 mile across the straits to the bahamas dont know never been there yet.
When it happen maybe some other people want to set up a big trip for 2 weeks in the bahamas . but anyway
I like to look at this before i buy, Thanks

[delevi]

I recall 10 kts under power, but unless it's a planing hull, I just don't see that happening. Not sure how that would all work in getting a boat with a metal keel located down low to rise up on plane. Figuring 30 feet waterline length, gets you to 7.34 kntos max hull speed.

[Currie]

Hi Art,

(Sorry if this has been addressed earlier in this thread). Regarding the cabin headroom and walking on the deck:

Is this a - "walk up-and-over the deck salon" like a MacGregor ?
or a more traditional - "deck walkways alongside the cabin near the toe rail" ?

Just curious - it makes a difference in cabin headroom and so affects the layout (IMO).

Sounds really exciting.

~Bob

[ralphk]

Congratulations Art !


Wow, I'm sure that you've put so much work into the business side of this venture already.

Now the toil transfers over to boat building (not to mention, sales & marketing, finance and service)

My suggestion to move this design exercise along is:
1) We need the exact location of the keel well - This becomes a working point that triggers the orientation of the central components.
2) Is the keel well full height like the "M" or Seaward 32, or just a long low swing object like in the Dragonfly pictured earlier in this thread?
3) Next components are head, galley, and central dining area.
4) Setees, lockers, fridge etc. can be filled in last, with the remaining space.

I have some time tomorrow evening, so can turn any suggested layouts around quickly.

Best

Ralph k
Hakuna Matata

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I believe Art indicated it was a trunk keel exactly like the DragonFly. That is what led me to decide not to draw, but instead just adapt the dragonfly layout as shown in the pictures posted above.

My vote goes for a drawing that shows the head just aft of the vee berth, it is a walk through space on your way forward. The fixtures are to port. There is a real wall with a door separating each space.

Aft of that there is seating along the entire port side with small end wraparounds. The galley takes up about 3/4 of the wall space available along the starboard side. The table is on top of the keel trunk. The height of the seating is adjusted to whatever is appropriate for the table height. The nav desk is left out, the ladder is a SS swingup one, the electrical panel is in the same aft port side location leaving open access to the aft berth ala the 'M'.

Grab the dragonfly plan and adjust as needed for the beam and length.

Both the seating, the aisle floor, and the galley as well as the base for the head and the head sink are part of the pan. The forward walls and doors are some light weight wood or cored material.

While the modular thoughts expressed are interesting, the reality is that doing that well in a boat would be a very engineering intensive task. I think Art should cast in the basics, not leave them up to others to build and install. While modular/kit projects have an appeal up front, the reality is that most end up poorly executed and leave a negative impression on the boats reputation (not to mention resale value). I'm sure there are a few here who could design and build a lovely interior given enough time, but the majority of customers would not have these skills. There is a big difference between doing a mod or two and building an entire boat interior. This is particularly true when you have to build the interior after the deck has been installed.

[ralphk]

Next Iteration:

Salon, head, galley basics.

Are pocket doors out of the question? Of course they are much heavier and more expensive, but soo much better product than
the privacy curtains that I see on a lot of boats

I'm not sure what to do with the space aft of the table on the port side.
Maybe this is a good candidate for the modular track system suggested earlier.
Many desire more storage, others a Nav station.

I've also included a legend with symbols for duplex outlet, lights and of course fire extinguisher.

Is it too early to start thinking about electrical panel, battery locker, VHF radio, stereo?
I wouldn't expect these to be included in Art's price, but some raceways with pull strings and solid backing zones, would sure help
after delivery.

enough for now - must rest up because the forecast calls for snow shovelling in my very near future

http://www.flickr.com/photos/timon_k26/ ... .jpg[/img]

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Looks good.

There are a number of things I like.

The galley is big enough to actually cook at and it would have a lot of internal storage.

I would expect that the seating would be raised some to match the table height and there would be a lot of storage under there as well.

I'm a firm believer in dedicated spaces rather than multiuse spaces on a boat. With this layout people can be seated at the table and not have to move to allow passage to the head or for the cook to work. The table can stay in place all the time.

I like the full head forward and the only requirement I would have is there has to be full standing headroom in the head. It's nice to have the vee berth separated by a wall and door yet you can open the door and use the standing head space for dressing while the salon door is closed. In this way the head space becomes a useful extension of the vee berth space. I'd like to see a sump, or at least space for one under the head floor for drainage when hanging wet gear and maybe a shower option.

I don't think pocket doors are feasible, but the sliding along the inner surface doors you have show would certainly be possible. I'd like to see the rounded top and bottom hatch style doors with a small step over section at the floor level. This would let you have a upper and lower track for the sliding door. The openings could be this rounded shape and the sliding panels could be just slightly larger.

In a way I like the aft wall you have drawn as well, but I wonder about the aft berth access compared to a fully open aft area like the M has. I could see perhaps a set of two centered sliding doors that open to each side. This, combined with a flip up SS ladder would allow you to open up a 4' opening at the center behind the ladder. A lot of this depends on the cockpit layout. Does it have a floor height companionway opening ala the X which gives great cabin access, or does it have the seat height companionway opening ala the M which makes the cabin access smaller and the ladder taller but adds better aft berth headroom and aft berth access.

[kmclemore]

...The galley is big enough to actually cook at and it would have a lot of internal storage...

you need to grab the ladies on this one and ask over in the Admiral's forum what they think. After all, they spend the most time there, and very often they are the decision maker on buying the boat, based often upon the galley and head.

[Love MACs]

The latest drawing does look good but I would prefer the head be in the aft position behind the dinette and in front of the aft birth on the port side. This would form one wall of the aft birth compartment leaving access to the birth under the swing up ladder and a portion of the starboard side. Your sliding door for privacy could slide behind the head. And the dinette seating could be a rap around in the forward area, just looks more appealing IMHO. I would also like to see some kind of shower system in the head, with drain ( maybe a prefab drop in unit like in some RVs) and an electric pump for water in the galley and head. so sayth me and the Admiral

Just adding to the confusion

Allan

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I'd still vote for the head forward having owned a boat with the head aft for the last 7 years. Moving the head forward ala the M makes a nice improvement in the openness of the salon compared to the aft location where it is in the X. The problem with the aft location is that to make it large enough, you take up too much of the most important cabin space. Putting it forward and having it be full width like the Dragonfly and this layout lets you still have a spacious head while keeping the entire salon area free and clear for the full width of the boat. The mistake of the M head is two fold, it is only half width and far too short. The key is to design the deck so there is full headroom forward where the head is.

This design also let's you merge the vee berth and the head space for dressing purposes. You can close the aft door for privacy and still keep the vee berth open for sitting. I'd even opt to make the sliding door on the wall between the vee berth and the head larger than the one in the aft wall. This would let you merge the spaces better.

While it's not dimensioned, it looks like the Galley is about double the size of the galley in the X. This will be plenty big for all cooking. It is close to 3 times the smaller M galley space. I'm assuming the cabinets will be std height, not MacGregor short, and the counter top depth looks good.

Running water is a must, no need for a pressure system, demand switch faucets and a demand pump will work. I much prefer this as you don't have the worries about pressurized supply lines leaking. We have this in our boat and it works great. With the two sinks on the stbd side it should be easy to do the plumbing.

While the full wrap around forward seating seen in some boats looks nice, in practice it actually has a few drawbacks. Going forward for a nap becomes a crawling and climbing experience, it's much more civilized to be able to walk all the way to the vee berth. Likewise we get a lot of traffic forward to the hatch in our boat. It is the primary path everyone uses to access the bow. Doing this is much harder in a boat with the seating wrapped around the front. It also requires getting rid of the forward wall and using a curtain type divider. I'd much rather have a wall and a door at the vee berth. The boat needs at least one real stateroom with a door that you can go behind to sleep and dress.

As always there are many ways to do things and Art will have to make the call on what he builds. To my eye, given the constraint of the keel trunk, this adaptation of the dragonfly layout is very appealing. It has the look of a real purposeful cruising boat, not a day sailor that you might spend an occasional night on. The seating, galley, and head are full size, not mini like a Mac, and it looks like a boat you could spends weeks on with a family in comfort. My family of 5 would have been much more comfortable in this boat than we were in our X during our 3-1/2 week Canada trip.

Art, do make sure it can motor at least at 8 knots, that is a minimum speed needed here in the Pacific Northwest. We need to be able to cover 30 - 40 Nm a day in no wind conditions and still have some time at our destination. Make sure there is space for enough fuel to allow a 100-150 Nm range under power.