Drawing first blood - bilge clean up

[C Striker]

Hello fine people who love to pass on their knowledge to the novice,

If that's enough butter, I'll proceed. I have an 09M, my first boat, but have grown up on lakes and ski boats. I have skills, used to work as an industrial mechanic in the injection molding industry.Working on boats is new to me and I don't want to messer up. Wish the wife would have let me get an X but she put her foot down for a new M. ( Sheesh, women!) I figure I will start off cleaning up the bilge area, so nobody will see my sloppy work as I get used to fiberglass.
I'm thinking of using an electric palm sander to get of the rough edges, and to toss some paint down there too. It hasn't taken me long to realize not to buy anything for a boat at a boat store if I can get it at Lowe's. Guess if you can afford a boat, you can afford the markup. ##$%^&$^#%
I'm thinking I can simply sand, vacuum, then paint. I'm only considering painting as protection. I may be way off base. If so lemme know. If not, what kind of paint should I use?

I'm also considering boxing the batteries and cleaning up the wiring thats put in with no consideration that it is a storage space. I'm wondering if I need to suck it up and copy what my new idol Jack Sparrow did electricially. After the VHF is installed, I will need to add another fuse/switch box anyways. I'm in telecom and know all about pulling wires. This boat WILL go to the Bahamas eventually and we will be spending at least a week at a time onboard here locally. I can't help wondering if I'm biting off more than I can chew. Because I'm so ready to dive right in and get to drilling.
Ok there's questions in there somewhere. Like what do younz guys recommend as far as cleaning up the bilge? And should I really be thinking of an electricial re-do after only a few months?

thanks, Erik Striker

[parrothead]

White paint on the raw fiberglass "underneath" interior surfaces was our first "improvement" to our , done before we ever put the boat in the water. The Admiral did all of the bilge spaces except under the rear berth [where we never store anything], as well as the interior of the sliding galley. Not only are the surfaces now smoother, it's much easier to see what's there, and to keep them clean. It also was very effective in killing the "new fiberglass" odor.

[Russ]

White paint on the raw fiberglass "underneath" interior surfaces was our first "improvement" to our , done before we ever put the boat in the water. The Admiral did all of the bilge spaces except under the rear berth [where we never store anything], as well as the interior of the sliding galley. Not only are the surfaces now smoother, it's much easier to see what's there, and to keep them clean. It also was very effective in killing the "new fiberglass" odor.

I bought some white garage floor (cement) paint for this purpose. Unfortunately boating season started and I didn't get to do it. Maybe in the Spring. The Admiral also complains of fiberglass resin. I kind of like it. New boat smell.

[Oskar 26M]

I'm not sure about painting the bilge but if you do decide to do so, its worth using a good quality paint and adequate preparation. My doesn't have a painted bilge but the PO of my previous (old) boat had painted the interior with an oil based marine paint. It still flaked, so I'd probably go for an epoxy paint if I ever considered painting the .

Its probably stating the obvious but if you decide to get into sanding in there, maybe think about wet sanding to keep the dust down. Otherwise remember some good ventilation and protection for eyes, ears and especially respiration. The fibreglass dust has nowhere to go in such a small space. It is also likely that there will be some razor-sharp glass fibres sticking out in some of the more hard-to-get-at spots, so hand protection is a good idea.

There are numerous threads on here about wiring but plan ahead before you start drilling and cutting.

A second battery, with a 1-2-both switch was high on my list.

After that, the list of electrical gear you might want to install is endless, As well as internal power for VHF radio, stereo and innumerable other interior gadgets, likely additional wiring runs will include getting power to the helm pedestal (GPS), cockpit (power outlet), and mast (anchor light, maybe radio antenna cables).

I've found it easier to run most wires through the port bilge area to keep feeding wires through between the deck and liner to a minimum but when you do have to pull wires through, leave a puller string in place for the inevitable "next time". A square channel conduit fits nicely and unobtrusively between the forward end of the dagger-board trunk and the head bulkhead

As Jack Sparrow demonstrated there is a lot of space behind the small mirror up above the head area for all sorts of stuff, but give thought to accessibility of switches and fuses. Because I single-hand, I've kept them close to the companionway so they can be easily reached from the cockpit.

Happy modding

[pokerrick1]

It also was very effective in killing the "new fiberglass" odor.

That's funny - - - I was depressed when that smell went away

Rick

[Capt Capsize]

First blood and lots of it!
When I did the same with the bilge in my X it made the storage much more usable. I found a good pair of side wire cutters and a course sanding drum on the Dremel tool much more useful than a pad sander. There were lots of individual fibers sticking every which way. Snip the off and grind them down. Don’t forget the safety glasses and lots of Band-Aids. I used Interlux bilge paint. It sticks well without having to wipe down with solvents. One quart covered everything I could reach.

[James V]

Very doable and a lot less hassel than getting somebody else to do it. I did a lot, Check out some of my threads and send questions to me if you like.

My biggest mistake was the head. Put the head on the floor and not the ledge. Use hand drill only on the boat, some very thin glass!!! Get a 5 gal head. Put a vent in. There is enough room for a cloths rod behind the head. Nice. no wrinkled cloths. Do not use a brush in the head. It always smells. Get a 1 quart spray bottle and mix 1/2 cap or more of liquid cloths detergent. shake well. If it does not clean the first time, waite a few min's and spray again. Keep lid closed.

Take have fun.

James "Lynx" Bumming in the Fl Keys for the winter.

[C Striker]

Thanks for the info. And especially the very kind offer, James. I will take you up on that and check your threads. Seems when I do a search, I find too much info on something I need to do in the future. So I take notes for when that day comes, but am still left with my origional question.

I have a couple more very stupid questions. I'm trying to work the wiring up from the bottom of the bilge, but 1 of them has no slack at all. I can cut and crimp a couple feet onto it, right? This 12 volt DC is new to me. This short wire feeds the voltmeter button. If I can add to the wires, I may just move the panel thats dealer installed. I knew I should have done all this myself, but wanted to sail a bit before winter. Its located at the bottom of the companionway under the aft table seat facing the dang steps!

Also, I only have 1 spare left on my add on elec panel. The factory panel has 4 switches: cabin lights, running lights, mastheadlight, and electronics (GPS and compass light) Can I jump the cabin lights on to another light to free up the space. Or maybe jump the stereo to the water pump? The radio can't pull that much, ya mean? Once the sun goes down I plan on reading some threads and looking up the factory switches. Should I just toss that thing out? I guess the fuses are hidden in the backside.

For the record, having my head under there made me realize I love that smell too. Missed it even.

thanks again for your time, sailors need to run the government! nah, we need to sail more...
Erik Striker

[Terry]

I'm thinking I can simply sand, vacuum, then paint. I'm only considering painting as protection. I may be way off base. If so lemme know. If not, what kind of paint should I use?
Ok there's questions in there somewhere. Like what do younz guys recommend as far as cleaning up the bilge? And should I really be thinking of an electricial re-do after only a few months?
thanks, Erik Striker

Ok, paint is not just protection, it makes the Admiral happy, she likes to know that the areas she stores her provisions are clean and scrubbable. Nothing like a clean white coat of Gelcoat on the bilges to provide a clean white surface. If you use gelcoat be sure and get a gallon so that you can slop it on thick. This was one of the first requests my Admiral made and like yours she insisted on a new boat. Do all the prep work as has been advised then use a heavy paint, epoxy or gelcoat and make it look appealing, she needs to feel comfortable with storing her stuff there.
After a couple seasons you will discover the oem fuse pannel to be inadequate.

[James V]

Great. I will se what I can find on the threads and post the link.

See if this helps.
http://macgregorsailors.com/forum/searc ... mit=Search

When you paint. Paint the hatch as well. This is the first thing to condesate and everything dust and smell will sit there until cleaned. The rough finish is hard to clean. I did not do it and wished I had.

It is best not to make connections between things. For now, I would just put in a short wire between. If you can see it, it is not as bad. Waterproof as you can.

The wires in the Stock Mac is #14. Try not to pull more than 9 amps with everything on. Voltage is bad on 12 volts. Look into getting a box of wire than buying by the foot.

I replaced the stock pannel with breakers. This is the best thing on long term boat usage. 8 on one side and 4 on another. Supplied by an #8 wire. Yes, the radio and water pump are power hogs. Look into the 1k gen instead of solar panals. By the time you add a fridg and computer to everything the big solar panals and batteries get costly.

I did stay at Carolina State Park for a few days. Very nice stop. I should have had a Bikecycle.

[C Striker]

I did a thread search of posts started by James and hit paydirt. Seems James isn't shy about asking questions either. high 5! The 8 circuit breaker panel with 3 seperate light switches seems a good way to roll. Paul S's boat. Well done sir. Will look into that once I have done my painting. And figure out stuff like what a generator is. Life is a challenge again, this is great!
So I'm driving the Admiral crazy about the electrical system. She is a "don't worry" type. She has me, so she need not worry #$^@$%^$% I can't wait to get her with the ole don't worry line when she wonders where the land went! Oh yeah!
Thanks for the help guys.
Erik

[James V]

On the panal "located at the bottom of the companionway under the aft table seat facing the dang steps". On the inside, Is it protected with a box so that nothing will be hit?

I use this area to store my most used items like fenders, hoses, lines ect.. Always full and most used, bigger and heaver stuff.

If no protection, please do so or more as it will create you problems at the worst times.

[J.Teixeira]

Hi

About the bilge area. (painting)

Use an electric palm sander to get of the rough edges ! OK But...

Pay attention because on doing it you will be removing resin and "exposing" the fiber threads.

It is normal to have water accumulation on the bilge and that water WILL enter in the GRP causing problems of "delamination" (I don't know if it's the correct word in English) and osmosis.

That is very bad!

People concerns allays in protecting the hull from the outside but forgets about the interior...

I advise you to paint the "floor" of the bilge with EPOXY because that floor is in fact the interior face of your hull.

You can find 2 component EPOXY pain in Westmarine (Interlux 404/414 Epoxy Primekote or Gluvit Epoxy Waterproof Sealer)

That will protect your hull from inside virtually for ever... (use white for visibility)

About the wires on the bilge. Remove them from any area were water might accumulate. Preferably to the higher area off the bilge along the hull side.

With time water WILL enter your cables and destroy them from INSIDE. Turning the wires black and useless...

Sail happily

JT

[C Striker]

On the panal "located at the bottom of the companionway under the aft table seat facing the dang steps". On the inside, Is it protected with a box so that nothing will be hit?

No it is not protected at all! This is part of the reason I'm considering an electricial re-do after only being out in her for a month. That and the factory panel seems the fisher-price type.
The bilge is ready to be painted. I simply cut off the nasty stuff and used a stone on big cordless to clean the area up. It took as least 5 times as long to vacuum than to prep surfaces. I appreciate the info. I got in there and thought... hey wait a second, this is your hull here. Or, this is your ballast here. Or this is just the ledge for the potty... it needs cut away sooner or later anyways.

It is normal to have water accumulation on the bilge and that water WILL enter in the GRP causing problems of "delamination" (I don't know if it's the correct word in English) and osmosis.

Pardon my newby-ness what is the GRP? I found water under the rear birth, center compartment only. It has a white look to it, after drying it yesterday. Hopefully that white has gone. I'm afraid to paint over it for now.The boat sits so the cockpit drains, but the molding here brought it forward against the battery compartment. I'll be chillin out once the rain comes Sunday. I'm thinkin the rudder ropes are to blame. I have a big ole to-do list. For now, protection in the bilge is tops.
I'm out in the mess, boaters world Black Friday event. Oh my, I didn't want to go anywhere today. Then to WM if I can't find the epoxy that JT refered to.
JT, thanks for chiming in. All you awesome Mac owners are keeping me from losing my mind. And I am not joking. My head doesn't ache in the evenings anymore. I can't express how invaluable your information is to me.
Erik
Woops 6 hours later and I realized in my hurry I never posted. Turns out I chickened out on the epoxy. 7 days ago I was sick as a dog. I don't trust respirators and will breath through a hose, once its nesessary to "artificially" clog my nostrils. And I got a sweet shop vac for 30$ woohoo black friday! Instead I single-handed mast raising with a furled genny today, learned how to do it prefectly and no scratches. No more climbing around that stuff to get in. Lawd I love this boat!

I'm thinkin of doing a newbie notes on ??? kinda thing for the when the next person comes along in my shoes. It would cater to the novice Mac owner. The archives have info the layman erm... gets evening headaches over. I was a plastics guru in another life, and loved passing on my skills. Seems younz guys are too. This will set up a nice format. Instead of doing a mod search of wiring, they would be told to do a newbie+notes+wiring search! This seems both gay (not that there's anything wrong with that) and a great idea to me. I doubt I can e-mail Heath yet,or I'd run it by her.
what say you???
Erik of the Sea Striker

[Oskar 26M]

Pardon my newby-ness what is the GRP?

GRP = Glass Reinforced Plastic (what the boat is made of) and Jose is right, its not a good thing to expose the glass fibres because water can migrate along them and cause the epoxy to degrade. Hopefully the inside of your boat should not often get so wet that it would be a major problem but epoxy paint is a good way to go. Its seals and smooths the surface at the same time. If fumes are a problem why not try a hooka? You might be able to hire one from a local dive shop.

I'll agree with Jose's principle about keeping electrical wiring high so that id doesn't get wet, but the insulation of the cables should be waterproof unless damaged. What is more important is to keep all junctions away from water and waterproof them with liquid electrical tape - the kind you brush on. Don't rely on on the self adhesive tape on the roll, it will leak (although self amalgamating tape might be okay - I haven't tried that). Likewise the shrink-wrap type of electrical junction protection. It looks good, but is not entirely waterproof and water and salt eventually make their way along between the wire's insulation and the shrink-wrap sleeve. I have had a few bad experiences with shrink-wrapped wiring junctions on my trailer that are regularly immersed in sea water. Liquid electrical tape fixed the problems entirely.

Nowadays, unless the junction has to be regularly unplugged, I slide a shrink-wrap tube along the wire: solder the junction, coat the soldered area with liquid electrical tape and after that cures, slide the shrink-wrap back over the junction and apply heat to shrink it into place. This results in a neat, strong, durable and waterproof junction that minimises corrosion risk and guarantees a good electrical connection.

I'm thinkin of doing a newbie notes on ??? kinda thing for the when the next person comes along in my shoes. It would cater to the novice Mac owner.

I'd encourage you to do so. Although we are all different and none of us is likely to modify our boat in exactly the same way, a collection of lessons learned is always helpful, and not only to newbies!