New To Me -- Probably Old Hat to You

[Newbie]

Hello,

As my member name clearly indicates I am a) new to sailing, and b) new to Mcgregor saiboats.

I have done some running around looking at NUMEROUS McGregor 26x's & 26M's that seem to be parked in the mast up storage in Marina Del Rey, CA and must admit I think these boat look great and seem to be based on a great idea -- "Jack of all Trades, but a Master of None" I ride motorcycles and my favorite is my dual-sport --- again, it does it all but does nothing particularly well. I also fly a small plane -- low and slow. It flies very nicely, but the naysayers will squeal that it is too slow, too small, too old.... So, I'm not afraid of the unconventional and naturally, find the McGregor most appealing.

Having said that, I went on several sailing websites and found a ton of McGregor bashing going on. I've picked up the gyst of the nay-sayer's -- "it's not a real sailboat, it doesn't sail well, it is cheaply put-together, yada, yada, yada." This seems typical in just about every community of interest so I am not surprised. However, I would like some comments on my main concerns:

1) Yes, it's not an ocean traveler, but will it handle some unexpected weather when off-shore? (aside from lack of experience by dopey crew)
2) Anybody ever sail any real distance with this boat? Say, down the coast of California?
3) Does the lightness make it a faster sailer, or do the smaller sails (as opposed to conventional sailboats) limit the speed and the conditions
it can be sailed in? What are the drawbacks as compared to a standard keelboat.
4) I can certainly see the PLUSES. I like the idea of motoring when necessary. The ease of trailering etc... so I am sold on the entire concept but am somewhat put off by all the McGregor bashing that I have seen. One such comment is that you should be embarrassed at any Marina!? I don't see why anybody would ever be embarrassed with such a spiffy boat -- but there are always the hard-core know-it-alls.

Finally, is buying a used McGregor a good idea? My budget would require that, so I was wondering if they are out there and if there are any issues that should be considered in that respect. --- Well, I think I've covered everything, and would probably find the answers by reading everything on this website but --- time is always an issue.
Any feed back would be appreciated.

[Captain Steve]

My wife and I belonged to the channel Island Yacht Club and never suffered any disdain for the Mac. On the contrary there was envy of the capabilities and the frugalness of its operation. The WildestDream proudly served as the vessel of the Vice Commodore...my wife!

[NiceAft]

Newbie,

Your questions are basically the same ones I had when I first became interested in a Mac. That was 2003. Quickly, here are my answers, and not in any order.

1) When I did my research, I noticed that everyone who complained about a Mac, did not own one. The Mac owners loved them
2) I have taken mine on the ocean, but not in bad conditions. If the conditions are going to be bad, I don't go out. The boat can take much, but it is not a blue water boat.
3)It is not a fast sail boat by any means We will out motor them though. We like to say that we won't win the race, but we will be the first back to the bar
4) Many have gone on extended sails with the boat. You may have to do a search to see for yourself, or, you may get a more specific answer in another's post.

Ray

[Matt19020]

I can tell you my expeiriences
I have read a lot of Mac haters I have met few. People in person do not express what you read on the boards. Once you join the community most people I meet are more then friendly and if you do run into that one Mac Hater you can go point to point on praticality, economy, convenience, and cost and they will bail out of the conversation before you do. I kind of enjoy shutting them down...We are all out there for the same thing.

I have never heard of an Island Packet being the fastest boat out there but there are not many of us that would turn one down
The Mac is not "fast" but it is fun I have been able to achieve 6.3 mph. I hope to think the boat will go faster and I am the problem. I have never been on a sailboat in which we never strive to get that last knot out of her so no matter how fast you go you will want to go faster
You will never win a race with a Mac The boat does not point well this alone can keep you from winning

My longest trip to date has been motoring in less then 5 knots of wind (when the other boats were left at the dock) for 5 hours and covered 45+ miles that was a trip I could never do in a conventional sailboat
If I could change anything on the boat it would be amount of heal 30-35 degrees is normal in a good breeze....It used to worry me and now it is just fun and also an expierience you can not get with many other boats and feel perfectly safe doing it.

Ask any of us if we would do it again I think you will find the majority of us have no regrets...My only regret is that I did not do it sooner

Remember The grass is always greener whatever you have you will look around and want bigger and better... My dream boat is a 40' Benateau If I would ever get that boat I know I would look back and look at the simplicity of the Mac and the cost involved with each and realize it is not the boat that makes the good times it is the people and places....

[captronr]

No ocean experience, so can't speak to that.

Embarrassed--NO. Many in our club are intrigued by the X I have. When I trailer and stop for fuel, it always attracks a crowd. I stoppped at a west marine in Tulsa once with the X in tow--a guy caught me in the store and begged for a look inside, so we spent 20 minutes sitting and talking in the cabin.

Distance--In Oct, our club did a six day cruise around Grand Lake, Oklahoma, staying in a different marina each night. My GPS logged about 70 miles (both motoring and sailing). I came in last sailing every leg, but we were comfortable and had as much fun as any of the other boats. A couple of days, the wind went to zero, so I was first to the marina those days.

I think which boat gets you on the water is what matters. My slip is between a Hunter 25 and an S2--both "real" sailboats. I have yet to see either of them leave the slip this year. I walk past a whole row of "real" boats to get to mine--most of them are slimy green from inattention.

The lack of a fixed keel slows it down, but allows you to get in skinny water and not need an extension ladder to get in the boat on the trailer. It's features are a trade off. I sailed by myself one day last week, then derigged the boat by myself, and then loaded the boat by myself---no issues.

If you are looking at Mac's I suggest you decide which layout you like better--X or M. I wanted the X and found a lightly used and non-owner modified 2002 model (last year for X) and installed a new motor. I figure if / when I sell it, I can get at least 75% back. Not much invested for loads of fun.

[pokerrick1]

I have sailed my 2006 in the Sea of Cortez, Mexico and the Pacific Ocean out of Marina Del Rey. I have made the circle trip of MDR to San Pedro to Newport Beach to Catalina Island to MDR many times and the boat handles it well. The boat is GREAT LOOKING and always gets positive comments in that area.

It is NOT a racer, but it gets there safely and economically - - -for a 26 footer, it is laid out nicely and is comfortable for two adults (and a couple rugrats if you have them). The usefullness of the 60 HP engine should NOT be underrated. I don't know anyone who owns an M with a rotating mast that doesn't love it. Besides the color scheme (sic) changes inside the cabin, the rotating mast is the largest single improvement inthe M in a long time.

It is a great first sailboat to learn on - - - easy to both sail and singlehand. I had NEVER sailed a sailboat when I bought my Mac and I mostly just taught myself by asking questions and experimenting. I bought mine after I had a stroke and figured learning to sail it would either cure me or kill me. Turned out to be a wonderful CURE as I got stronger and my balance got better.

I think I might be getting ready to move uo now to a bigger boat - - - but the is a wonderful first sailboat.

Rick

[David Mellon]

Let's not forget that it is a camper too! You don't need water to enjoy your Mac, leave the mast at home and head to any KOA (Kiss Our A~~) campground and enjoy the comments you get from the trailer rats. I must say though when I take 75 minutes to get to Catalina Island, a trip that can take 6 hours choking on your own fumes, I know I made the right choice. Ever notice in a keel hull that your exhaust always seems to move faster than the boat in dead air? I am 6'2" and I can stand upright while cooking or changing clothes, not many trailerable boats can boast that. I love the comments I get at the marinas, I've never heard a bad one. I love flying past the keelboats on Sunday morning when we all head back from Catalina, I'm home when others are halfway back to port. Aside from getting wet I have been able to muscle through some very rough seas including small craft warnings without fear. I would feel comfortable sailing the entire California coast except possible the run past Big Sur. That section has no ports and a lot of rocks close to shore. Point Conception is the site of our navies most tragic disaster during peacetimeand requires care. I would want radar, backup GPS and a full compliment of safety gear for the middle section of our coast. The northern and southern thirds however would be wonderful and I do plan to do them both. A Dream trip from the Canadian border to Monterey then from Morro Bay to San Diego is in my future. I just need to find a patsy, errr friend, to drive my rig.

[Kelly Hanson East]

Ill add a few thoughts

- I was put onto the Mac by a keelboat sailor who told me while all the people who are bashing your boat are typing on their keyboards, you will be out sailing. (I live on a tidal estuary that brings conventional keelboats to their knees.)
One summer, I went from Toronto CA to Nantucket MA within 10 days, working a full time job in between the weekends. Not too many keelboaters can do that.

- The Mac is a relatively lightly built boat but it is strong enough to take coastal weather. The limitation on heavy weather is the crew ability, not the boat construction.

In my experience, the divide between racers and cruisers in the sailboat community is larger than the sail/power divide. If you go to a board like Sailing Anarchy, you will find a lot of mac bashing. Most of them dont own boats, but race on other peoples boats. There is a lot of good stuff on racing techniques and equipment there, but it isnt the place to get an overview on a trailerable power sailor!!

- Used boats hold value well so do shop around and compare to new - Mike Inmon is right there in MDR so check him out. The motor is the big problem with used boats, since it is a 8k-10k proposition to replace it if you have to.

[Scott]

1) Yes, it's not an ocean traveler, but will it handle some unexpected weather when off-shore? (aside from lack of experience by dopey crew)

My brother and I as well as a few on this board have taken our boats (my ex boat) out in some fairly substantial winds. What the boat can handle is directly in relation to your experience. (up to a degree) Plan your days well and use your head, its a great boat.

2) Anybody ever sail any real distance with this boat? Say, down the coast of California?

Small midwest lake, cant comment on this.

3) Does the lightness make it a faster sailer, or do the smaller sails (as opposed to conventional sailboats) limit the speed and the conditions it can be sailed in? What are the drawbacks as compared to a standard keelboat.

Its not a race boat by any stretch of the imagination. It does do what it claims very well and that is sail and motor adequately. Not a pure sailboat and not a pure motorboat. Just a fair mix of the two. The number one difference to a keelboat (aside from speed) is tenderness. "It tips easily and quickly". That being said, I have tried on numerous occasions in winds up to 35 mph to roll the boat under sail. I could not. (thats not to say it cant be done, in certain well publicized over loaded instances and under power it has) The worst I could do was get the water up to the hull joint or so and dip the end of the boom. The second large difference to a keel boat is the effect of the foil. "You cant point as high as a good keel boat". Damn physics!

4) I can certainly see the PLUSES. I like the idea of motoring when necessary. The ease of trailering etc... so I am sold on the entire concept but am somewhat put off by all the McGregor bashing that I have seen. One such comment is that you should be embarrassed at any Marina!? I don't see why anybody would ever be embarrassed with such a spiffy boat -- but there are always the hard-core know-it-alls.

The "Hard Core Know it alls " in my experience, generally dont even own a boat. If they do its usually a sunfish or a hobie and they get on the internet and talk a great line of crap (Back in the Day that was called CB Muscles). Kinda like bashing SUV's in favour of a Ferrari all the while driving a Yugo.

Most if not near all real sailors, dont dog others boats. Marina and ramp life (well Sail only Ramps) is generally very civil and social. I have had sailboat owners of all kinds crawling all over my Mac oooing and aaawing the entire time.

Besides, Walk some piers or drive through mast up storage. There are some real albatross' in every Marina. Makes the Mac look really good.

[Newbie]

Thanks everybody for all the feedback. Overall, it sounds like the boat for me. but I keep dreaming that I would like to eventually be able to do some real cruising. Down to Mexico, up to Canada etc.... Of course with my limited knowledge that could all be a pipe-dream and I very well could simply end up sailing in circles in the Marina five times a year. The goal, the "dream", is to get to do some real cruising someday. However, in every other respect the Mac is the perfect fit. DOH!!!! There's the option of going with a Mac for several years and then maybe going to more of a cruise-boat, but then there is the question -- do you get spoiled sailing a Mac? Do you end up taking the engine for granted and rely on it too heavily? Do you learn real sailing skills on a Mac or will you have to re-learn everything when purchasing a "real" sailboat!?

Keep in mind, these are the questions of the uninitiated -- the classic newbie. However, I am not the type that likes to sit around yakking, exchanging tall tales and lies --- all the while doing nothing. I intend to get out on the water with my hair on fire and learn as quickly as I can.

Ideally, I would like to take a ride on somebody's Mac. I could offer up a nice scenic flight over Los Angeles in exchange -- providing the passenger will fit into my 1939 Luscombe. (225 lbs or lighter would be ideal.) Any takers in the So Cal area?

[captain frank II]

The MAC's are all great boats. For a new boat: Much boat for the money.


That being said, There is no perfect boat, so you have to find the one that fits your purpose the best.

Older classic macs: good sailers , small outboard, low headroom
MAC x and M: just ok sailer, large outboard (great speed in flat/low seas only), great headroom.


Hunter 260: also water ballast: good sailer, small outboard, great headroom, great room throughout
S2 7.9: excellent fast racer/cruiser, 5' 5" headroom, 4 good berths, small outboard, 4200 lb.s.

This is my boat review, Fair and balanced. Oh yeah, The MAC 26X and M point just fine, just not quite as high as some others. Not an issue unless you are racing. If you are entering a race ( with an X or M), you get a more fair rating if the regatta is using the Portsmouth system instead of PHRF. But that is a whole other issue.

[J.Teixeira]

Hi

A Mac is a "entry boat" I think that it is nearly true that there is no easier boat to sail...
It is a boat ideal for protected waters and coastal cruising (like most other 26 are)

Buying a Mac depends mostly on your program...

Meaning:
- Where you want to go?
- What you want to do?
- What are your sailing skills?

For a first boat and for a beginner you will be limited bi your skills and not bi the boat limitations.

When your skills evolve them you you have the knowledge and experience to decide what you want to do next...

It maybe time to change boat or not...

But changing boat is the most common thing with sailboat owners... Mi Mac was mi number 5 and I am "only" 45 years old.

One important thing is to be aware that you NEVER can "get it all". You must chose between options and with sailboats all involve sacrificing something...

For example:

I love sailing since I was a kid... It is a family thing... I did participated in many championships mainly Optimist, Laser and First-Class 8 ... Later i was crew member in some ocean crossing races...

I own a Mac because it is the best boat i could ever get to mi family.
And it is the perfect boat for mi area because i can sail in the wider areas and motor in the gorges of Douro river water way...
http://www.douro.iptm.pt/EN/via_navegavel/index.html

Many of mi "sailing friends" make silly comments on mi Mac 26X. I simply answer with questions...
- How many days and nights did you spent with your family in your boat???
- Where did you go with your boat?
- what did you do?

I will spare you all with descriptions of where mi boat did go (it is not a normal story and it would be to long...)

For example now it is winter and here in the north of Portugal it is could and not very good for sailing so i trailered mi boat to the Algarve (700km) and will sail along the winter (and their boats are in the PORTO Marina waiting for the next spring.)

Best regards

JT

PS: Of course that for having fun sailing big i did keep mi other sailboat Dehler 23 Match and a Finn...

[Hamin' X]

Let me start by first stating, that I do not own a Mac 26X, or M. That being said, I agree with what Scott has stated about the opinions that abound on the other sailing boards.

In my opinion, you must decide what is best for you. What are your goals? From what you have stated, your sailing experience is limited, to nonexistent. Nothing wrong with that. With the exception of those that grow up in sailing families, that is the way everybody begins. But consider this, when you began flying, you did not climb into a Cessna 310 to learn to fly. No, you probably learned in small, tender and forgiving 2, or 4 seater. The same goes for sailing. Learn the basics in a small, tender and forgiving boat first. What happens in one of those, happens very fast, but it teaches you what to do and when to do it. These basics carry over to the larger boats, you just have to learn to deal with the larger size, characteristics and quirks of each individual boat, particularly when docking, or maneuvering in tight quarters.

My recommendation is to check out the local sailing schools and take some ASA basic sailing courses. It will be money well spent. While you do this, you will be exposed to the opportunity to crew on other boats for fun and racing. Take advantage of it.

Get to know your local Mac owners and go out with them when the chance arises, on both X's and M's. Only through exposure, will you be able to decide what is best for your life style. Are you married? If so, the your Admiral will have more to say about the type of boat you get than you would believe. Some people cannot handle the initial tenderness of the Mac. Without a real keel, it heels very quickly to 15 degrees, then stiffens up as it tries to lift the water ballast out of the water. Some people cannot handle the initial quickness and get a sense of panic. By learning in a smaller boat, this will not be a problem. If you learn to sail a small cat, or sloop rigged dinghy, you can sail anything.

As for cruising, you can have the best of both worlds, once you learn to sail and get some experience and/or certifications. Buy a Mac for fun and everyday sailing, then charter bigger boats in other locales for extended cruises. That way you don't own a hole in the water that you pour money into. Most charter companies will take you for a check-out sail of about an hour and if the skipper sees that you know what you are doing and seem competent, off you go for a week, or more. You can do this several times a year, for less than slip fees and maintenance on your own keel boat, much less the purchase price of the larger boat.

A plus with this method is that you will gain much experience in different sailing conditions and different boats. The conditions in SoCal are much different that those in Monterey Bay, or the San Juan Islands. When you deal with the big winds, currents, tides, or ocean swells in these other locations, you will be able to sail anywhere.

As far as which Mac to buy? Check out both the X and M. The difference is mostly personal choice. Performance of either model is different, in different conditions. The layouts and size of the cockpits, are the most important differences.

Learn the basics, become sure and competent and with proper planning, you can take a Mac most anywhere. The most important decision is to pick the boat that you will use the most and have the most fun sailing. If you decide that racing is what you want to do, then the Mac is not for you. If you want to get away from the hustle and bustle of city life and relax in a quiet cove on the weekend, or just go out and have fun and go exploring, the Mac is ideal.

Welcome aboard Macgregorsailors and welcome to the sailing community in general.

~Rich

[Terry]

Funny thing about blog Mac bashers
They remain anonymous due to their online monikers.
They have never even seen in person a Macgregor let alone sailed on one or owned one.
Many do not even own a sailboat at all, they are armchair sailors or sailor wannabee's.
They do not have the courage to bash your Macgregor to your face, instead those cowards hide behind their anonomous moniker.
Some are just plain ignorant rich folks who have more money than brains, own a big boat but have no in depth understanding of sailing or boating.
Some of the opinions you get here will be naturally biased to some degree but at least these are experienced opinions from real owners.
Someone (an Owner) once called the Mac a 'Starter Kit' I think that summed it up for me. It is a Starter Kit but a fun one at that and it gets us evrywhere we could want to get in the Pacific Northwest.
Funny how all the smaller boats get out on the water more often than the bigger boats which is very much the case in the marina I slip at during season.
I also get to travel further on a long weekend because of the extra range the 50hp outboard provides.
It still ranks as one of the best bangs for the buck, even with the latest competition.

[Boblee]

Plenty of good advice above but at the end of the day it comes down to what you want to do.
Our boat 2006 is used as a caravan when travelling between locations, we have travelled 800+ k's down our Murray River, numerous weeks on a small lake and associated waterways, a three month trip up our East coast with 8 weeks on the water at various locations and this year 3 months to our top end and another 9 weeks on the water, next year we plan another top end trip to finish in the Kimberlies on the West coast and then the plan at this stage is to sell the boat?
We don't do a lot of sailing but what we do is very enjoyable (by me) , there is no way any other boat could do what the mac does for us with a light tow vehicle and plenty of headroom comfort.
My advice would be to have a look at some boats and see if you can get some test runs to see which model suits and then get serious, I wouldn't worry about learning to sail yet but just try out a few boats.
Mike inmon has made an offer somewhere here for mac owners to do sales, use it.
We have been out on the open ocean but the Mac is a coastal cruiser and with a bit of common sense regards weather and shelter you could travel most coastal waters provided you don't have to be somewhere by a certain time (wait for weather).
The big motor for other activities and beating against strong currents or winds tends to kill any opposition boats except perhaps some of the copies which will only be better in some areas anyway.
Absolutely nothing comes near a Mac for all round versatility to suit almost any taste.