Anyone else use "wimp" motors?

[R Rae]

I have been happily using my 20 hp Honda for the past 4 years. Came with power tilt, electric start and alternator. Weighs in at 114 lb.
At 4500 rpm I can achieve approx. 8-9 knots, and good fuel economy.
With 300 hours running time don't plan to change. Installed, I think I was below $4000 US

[Love MACs]

All this discussion got me thinking about engine size, again, just when I thought I had my mind made up. What are ure thoughts or experiences with a "whimpy" engine on crossing to the Bahamas? ie can that same 20hp push you through the sea at a high enough speed to help get you out of the gulf stream and across in the same 8 hours or is it enough to run from "that" storm??



Allan

[maddmike]

As most folks who have been here awhile know, I'm currently running 2 x 6hp. Nissian long shaft motors. Had an 18 hp. Nissian on for awhile but it got ripped off when I was working in Sri Lanka. When I first got my MAC (Oct. 1995) I started with a Honda 45 & twin electric trolling motors for back-up(this was before the 50 came out). I sold the Honda to a guy in Bonaire in 2003 on my way back from the Amazon and have used small engines ever since. So, I do have some experience with both 'large' and small engines. Here's my 2 cents: If you're sailing area is some distance from your launch area or you need to 'push' against current and wind on a regular basis, or you don't really care much about becoming a better 'sailor' and intend to compensate with power-go with a big engine. If you are planning to sail your boat more than motor, intend to use it overnight or for 'longer' (week-long+) trips, a 20-30 hp. engine, with a 4-6 hp. back-up should be considered. Or, like me twin small engines. Here's my experience: Unless you are in a calm sea state, willing to wait for 'perfect' conditions, going downwind, or just don't mind using more gas and stressing your boat more than necessary, a large engine is fine for crossings like the Gulf Stream. However, a big engine is of little use when the sea state is such that you are pounding into head seas, rolling abeam off big swells, or have an extended passage with no fuel available on the other end. So the anwser is- big or small depends on the intended use of your boat, simple as that.

I have seen a number of posts here claiming that a large engine is required to keep the boat hard to the wind or tack when the wind exceeds about 20 kts., sorry but this is simply B.S. If you know your boat and know how to SAIL your boat, you can handle just about any conditions with a combo of reefed sails, good seamanship and a small engine. Like autopilots, using your engine in place of learning sailing skills is a bad decission, unless the only objective of your sailing is daylight on lake no-wind, waterskiing the kids behind the boat.

While the MAC was initially designed as a 'power-sailor', it is also a very nice platform to allow one to learn how to actually sail and at the same time minimize boat ownership expenses (gas $). IMHO, eventually the economics of hydrocarbon fuels will make hybred and electric power the MAC 'engine platform of choice' for the next generation of trailer-sailors and for the current generation of 'extended use' folks.

MM

[Bluecrab]

That's what is great about the Mac. We can select the motor we want.

The first dealer tried to talk us into a 25 hp because I could take it in for service with out the boat and also said it would sail better. The skipper in charge of the ASA sailing school said I would be happier with a 25 hp "it will sail better". We ended up buying used and it came with a 50 hp.

Then we took our ASA keelboat class. The instructor stood on the transom (22' Ensign) the whole class. She said with 4 in the boat, have weight aft because " it will sail better"? Obviously with less weight any boat should sail better but then again " I have a dinette".

Wally

[tangentair]

As most folks who have been here awhile know, I'm currently running 2 x 6hp. Nissian long shaft motors. .....eventually the economics of hydrocarbon fuels will make hybred and electric power the MAC 'engine platform of choice' for the next generation of trailer-sailors and for the current generation of 'extended use' folks.

MM

A very well said answer - should be included in a FAQ section IMO. I recently saw some electric "self contained" motors demonstrated and the largest had to be the equiv. of a 9 or 10 horse but they kept quoting torque and would not compare to hp. And no I don't know why, I was standing to far back to get a question in. Solar chargers with a back up generator might really be the wave of the future. If your only windless power requirment is docking and occassional manuvering these motors were really great. But occassionally I get into situations were I should not have gotten and like insurance. Perhaps knowing I did not have the extra horse power, might make me more introspective. And I would like to tow the grand kids screaming and annoying past the sunfish that cut me off all the time.

[Kelly Hanson East]

Tan - you can get to Horsepower by working the power consumption angle - 750 Watts per Horsepower of course

Like autopilots, using your engine in place of learning sailing skills is a bad decission, unless the only objective of your sailing is daylight on lake no-wind, waterskiing the kids behind the boat.

I am not an advanced sailor, but made the big transition to this way of thinking last summer. I was coming through the Canapitset Channel on the Cape under motor, and was NOT prepared to sail (genny sheets not attached, main all tied up and covered.

Just as I reached the point of commitment (and turned into a following sea) my engine warning horn went off. I realised if my engine failed, I would end up on the rocks, singlehanding with my two girls on board.

I have never sailed coastal since without having my sails ready to go at all times. My engine is a useful thing to have if my sails fail.

[Zoran]

Some interesting posts here. I also have 30 hp, old Nissan, 2 stroke. My top speed used to be 10.5 kt, than I added 2 deep cycle batteries and 25 gal of fresh water at the front, some floors decks etc and now I can get up to 9 kt in ideal conditions WOT. Interesting is that at that speed I cannot completely empty my ballast, I estimate about 20 gal to will always stay in the ballast tank.

Zoran

[R Rae]

One of my ambitions is to take my 26X with the present 20hp 4 stroke over to the Bahamas someday..................However, I am a long ways away from being ready for such an adventure.

Certainly the window of opportunity would require all variables to be just
perfect for the crossing.

Will it ever happen. Who knows ??

[davidbagnall]

Hi guys

I'm not sure of the prop size and pitch but will try to find out. As for bottom paint I did remove the antifoul soon after I got the boat and I regularly wax the bottom. I did notice a difference between having bottom paint and not (but not much though). My Tachometer is not working so I don't know performance specs but to empty the ballast it’s pretty much full throttle and once empty it’s backed off by about an inch.

With family on board and provisions the speed does indeed drop back a fair bit, so to does the effect of waves and wind.

I'd say that it takes about 8-9 mins under power to empty the ballast. One trick I have found to get the bow as high as I can is to open the helms chair and stand just in front of the motor (with safety line across transom) which I also find a bit more comfortable. When I am fully loaded I also find it hard to get rid of the last of the ballast (I find getting my family to move aft for a few mins and then forward effects the trim of the boat and this seams to help getting rid of the last of the ballast)

Here is a pic of us towing our kids behind the mac (its not setting any speed records but the kids still had fun)
http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1p0nT ... DAB5uWjkKc

And here is one of the boat under power (single handed and heading into about 12 knot head wind)
http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1p0nT ... FZKK5fJcos