Replacing a cleat

[Brian Russell]

I need to replace a broken nylon(?) cleat on the strbd. rear rail, next to the cockpit on a 97 -X. I'd actually like to replace both of them with stainless ones. It appears to me that in order to access the nuts on the underside of the cleat bolts I will have to create an opening ( AKA a hole) inside above the rear berth. I assume this area (behind the seatbacks) is filled with styro. Is this really the way to do this? I need some lateral thinking assistance, please. Thanks...

[mike]

Several people have done this (and I will too soon)... everyone seems to, rather than go through the interior of the boat in the rear berth area, cut a hole in the cockpit right below the cleat, and install a removable deck plate for access.

--Mike

[Sloop John B]

Yeah, you don't want to go in from below. Hard enough with all those foam bricks to fight through. Smaller hole right in the cockpit where you can get your hands and eyeballs to remove, replace and patch correctly. Plan it out ahead of time and know exactly what you're going to do about the 'patch'.

[Kenoten]

I am in the process of changing my cleats... on my 97. I found the same ss cleats sold everywhere for $10.99 at Post Marine in New Rochelle, NY. Their online store is limited, but they are a huge store with a catelogue available. Not sure what shipping would be ... but here is their website:

http://www.postmarine.com/

[Don B]

Does the access cover hurt your back when you lean against it ? Assuming one is not using the cushions of course.

ANd no I am not suggesting going thru from underneath as it looks like it would be a nightmare.

I need to install one on Starboard side bow for the 5th line the Marina requires. Not sure how to go about installing one in the bow either.

Don B

[craiglaforce]

Hey Brian,
How did the nylon cleat fail? just curious.

I would personally take the other approach and make an access hole from in the aft cabin. That way, you don't have to fix any cosmetics in the cockpit, worry about an access hatch leaking or anything, and you are not making a big hole in the structure that perhaps lends some strength to the cleat area. You can first use the existing access panel to remove the foam blocks, then figure out the size of the hole you need to make. MIght be able to do it with just a 3 inch hole saw directly under the cleat. Have a helper hold the top screws and thats about it.

I added a SS cleat as an extra cleat to the rail by simply reaching back from the access cover that was already there. But I would not have been able to reach all the way back to the original cleat position. The styrofoam blocks were not a big deal at all, just pull them out and put them back when you are done.

I made a backing plate out of red oak and gooked up the holes with 5200.
No problems.

[Brian Russell]

Craig- The cleat's forward end was broken off when I acquired the boat in April. Otherwise, she's in great shape, with basically no mods, so I have a blank canvas. I do kind of hate the thought of cutting holes in the backs of the seats. I'll try the "from below" method first...

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I'd have to suggest what seems the opposite of most and recommend going in from the aft berth as well, who wants any exterior holes in the cockpit.

I've delt with the foam in most every compartment and it's really no big deal. Just have the shop vac ready to clean up the residual foam mess. From below you should be able to reach easily with a extension on the socket. You can just use any kind of plate to cover the hole. I'd make the hole with a spiral saw on my dremel. The only trick will be doing the measuring and accounting for the liner and gaps between the hull so the hole is in the right place. If you're really good you could just use a hole saw and then put plastic plugs in like the factory does all over the rest of the boat to get to the deck hardware. The foam will push out of the way enough for a socket. It's never packed to tight. At worst you can always chip it out of the way.

When I changed out my two bow cleats from nylon to stainless I also had to deal with bolt holes. The two bolt nylon ones are odd creatures. All the stainless ones I found had 4 bolts, so I had to fill in one old hole with marinetex.

Don, I assume the marina want's you to have a spring line from a mid deck area. Many sailboat folks just use a winch for this. Tie a loop and put it over the winch. It's stronger than any cleat will ever be.

I personally don't find a mid cleat necessary. My standard setup is an aft line to a aft dock cleat and an aft spring from the same aft cleat to a mid dock cleat, this keeps the boat located and the fat aft part close to the dock. I then have a third bow line at the front.

[norbert]

brian, i would suggest to try the inside path first and follow duane's advice. avoid holes in the deck if ever you can. i was exploring how to mount a chainplate for a split backstay from below and foud out that i can get somewhere up the transom when removing the canvas covered cardboard at the rear end of the aft berth. but i don't think that there is a way to reach the cleat bolts from this spot.

please keep us posted!

[Kenoten]

I started to install a stern cleat...and thought I would need to attack the project from a different angle... because the foam was packed really tight. But,,, after reading Duanes post... I think I will continue to go from underneath. I have a drywall saw that should work well. Unfortunately my drywall saw is 3.5 hours away from the boat. I really didn't want to cut a hole in the cockpit

[mark,97x]

on my 97 i accidently stepped on my port bow cleat,and the rear horn broke off ,the old nylon cleats are getting very brittle and will soon all have to be replaced,, please keep posted thanks

[Kenoten]

the bow cleats weren't too bad to replace. I am 5'8"...so my arms aren't real long...but I managed. I replaced with 8 inch ss cleats and used really large washers... as a plate. It was just a pain to reach way up there.. and then put the styrofoam puzzle back together. My 97 is on a dock on Cayuga Lake... and the old cleats were starting to wear, but they weren't brittle...very concerned they were undersized.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Changing the bow cleats on the older boats isn't so bad. They have the access panel up in the vee berth that makes it easy to get to the nuts on the under sides. The later model boats don't have the access panel so it is a lot harder to get inside the bow cavity. The only pain is the foam removal and replacement.

Here is the mod I posted that shows what is inside the cavity.

I replaced both my nylon bow cleats with a similar sized stainless cleats with 4 rather than 2 bolts. Each easily holds our 1/2" short line we use when on a mooring, and has no problem with the 3/8" anchor rode and dock lines. They are plenty big and will even hold two 3/8" dock lines on the same cleat. You can also see in the picture the 3 bolts for my anchor bow roller.

While you're in there you might as well do as much as you can at the same time.