WEATHERING STORMS IN A VENTURE 24-4 OR 25

[SURV1969]

Especially on the Great Lakes.

I might decide to keep my Venture.

It's either that or get a Hunter H27(with plenty of room), A Bayfield 25(Full keel but of which I hear is a real dog), or a Tartan 27(with a full keel).

I don't have enough big lake experience to know if one boat would be better than the other, but do like the idea of standing up down below(if it's important), or being able to hold a course reliably(which I haven't mastered on the Venture).

Has anyone had any first-hand knowledge with the boats I've mentioned?

If I do keep the Venture(and get another boat), I'm thinking of going crazy with batteries, mucho solar panels, electric motors, replacing the swing keel with much less weight in a smaller and thinner keel and seeing about cutting the sail area down drastically(like to 10-15 feet max), in order to turn the venture into a canal-sailer.

[James V]

Whenever one takes a looks at boats he looks at degrees of better and how big his pocket book is. A full keel boat will track in all conditions including heavy winds better than boats with smaller keels. However, your expenses will be a lot more than your Ventura.

My main question was "Do I really want to be out in those conditions in a boat smaller than 45 feet?" My answer was no because it is very rough. That is why I bought my M and did not refurbished a small cruiser. Even in the Fl bays, when the winds start blowing around 20+ almost all boats are in shore (i am the execption some times but the waves are not big).

There are a number of people on this board who have downsized to a Mac.

[SURV1969]

The Great Lakes(Lake Erie in particular), sometimes(as I understand it), removes the choice from the seller.

Usually storms will give a few hour's notice if one listens to the weather, but in the heat of summer, rogue storms can come up in a near-instant. I have religiously mapped out all the available safe-harbors and little niches where a boat by sit out storms from various directions. Generally speaking safe-harbors and niches are 7-10 miles from one another(potentially 2-3 hours from point of decision . . . depending on the boat's performance).

What I want is a "stand-up", interior, more weight underneath and a keel with more bite.

The Bayfield 25 offers almost standup room(5-9 or 5-10), a full keel of iron and a catwalk of about 9-10 inches.

From what I hear, the Bayfield 25 is a "slug", in the water and doesn't want to sail under 15 mph winds or so.

The only other boat I know of that will give me a nice full keel under 30 feet is a Tartan 27, although the O'Day 27 looks promising.

ANYWAY . . . back to the Venture 25. Getting caught in a short-notice storm could be a killer. Lifelines sit low(on the sort-catwalk, while a person going forward has to traverse over the cabin and onto the foredeck with no support to dowse a foresail or to set either an anchor of drogue.

The Tartan 27 offers a more substantial catwalk(even the Bayfield and O'Day does), which means that to traverse the boat to the foredeck, I'm left with a lifeline at near waist-height . . . much better than at near ankle-height . . . relatively speaking.

With the lack of substantial weight, I don't see how the less windage of a Venture 25 would be much help.

Believe you me, understanding the economics of a trailer-sailor(Venture 25), leads to my biggest hesitation at moving into a slightly larger boat.

It's not just cost . . . it's safety too, with a little comfort thrown in for good measure. The cat-walk usability is also very important to me.

My druthers is the Bayfield 25, but I wonder how many safe harbors I'll end up chasing only to wind up the proverbial "red-zone", short of harbor without enough room to weather the storm and in waters too rough to handle.

[SURV1969]

I also here the Bayfield 25 doesn't track or point very well either . . . which I find hard to believe.

[James V]

On the jib, install a jib downhaul. Cheep and simple. No need to go to the bow then with the sail up. can be handled going down wind if needed and it a quick bag. My policy is not to go forward while under way.

workout something with the main as well.

The other thing is to slow down. Usually helps.

[SURV69]

I've had a downhaul for years, but since I've always(almost always), used a 150 Genny, I still have to go forward to dowse it and gather it in.

Maybe I should add a fed loop from the mid of the genny's foot to the top hank and back to the cabin to at least partially gather it in.

[James V]

I had a 16'er and all that I did ws run a line from the top of the sail, to the bottom through a loop of some kind and back to the cockpit. It was a 100% jib. It always fell quite nicely on the deck.

Let us see what the others say.

[Bawgy]

My down haul is simple line to Head of sail through a block at the tack and back to the cockpit . I use a jib and genny with it. I have to turn the boat into the wind to douse the Genny but can douse the jib most anytime . If emergency dousing is needed. I just loosen the sheets pull the downhaul in and if needed run through the cabin and open the hatch standing in the v berth and pull the sail in . A crew member can actually go forward and pull the sail in as you douse if you have enough time.

One other trick if you are single handing is to tack and leave the sheet cleated so as to backwind the genny and douse

[frogvalley]

replacing the swing keel with much less weight in a smaller and thinner keel

I would not recommend this. The boat will not be self righting and will heel faster and farther and will completely destabilize it. You wanted more stability I believe.

I love my 78 V 25 and am upgrading many things on it. A complete refit and re-rig.More electrics, more wood inside, new pop top cover that I have never had.

The pop top cover would give you the standing room and except for really choppy seas, you can sail with it up.

[SURV69]

I hear what you're saying.

If I ever did reduce my keel, it would be for the purpose of changing the boat to a more mundane use, as far as sailing's concerned . . . no more trying to beat.

BUT . . . being what human nature is, I would probably end up doing something stupid and regret the reduction in weight.

[Catigale]

There are a lot of summer days on the Greats when the wind wont get up to 15, that 'slug' of a boat wont be fun on those days.

[johnnyonspot]

Another model you might consider is a Cape Dory. They handle heavy weather according to what I read, have full keels, etc. Don't know about standing headroom, though. Here is a Cape Dory 28 for sale. Might be worth looking into.

[johnnyonspot]

Another boat you might consider is a Contessa 26. If it can be sailed around the world by a young girl it can surely take whatever the Greats have to offer... I would think.

[magnetic]

I was out in the Solent in my Beneteau 343 yesterday, F6 gusting 8 and there is NO WAY that I would have ventured out in my in those conditions, even on bare poles!

In general, it's surely not really a question of the boat, but of what you want out of it; I have no doubt that there are thousands of die-hard dinghy racers for whom a 7ft swell and 30mph winds are a wet dream, whereas personally show me 12kts and a sunny day, and I'm your man