Need a Backstay
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Captain Steve
- Captain
- Posts: 722
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:40 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Oxnard, CA "Wildest Dream" '98X Nissan 50
Need a Backstay
I have lost a strand or 2 on my backstay...are these available online? I would like to make my own at WM, they offer the tools free, but is this too critical for a DIY project?
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Frank C
Steve,
As you're already aware, the backstay is the least critical of a Mac's standing rig. I'm sure you could do it yourself, and you could switch to an adjustable backstay at the same time. However, I didn't do my own, Eric Lowe shortened my backstay with hand-swaging gear, and then I added the split arrangement.
However, the bigger issue I want to study is the other wires. If your backstay is showing it's age, they can't be far behind, right? I'll be looking closely next time at the boat. (Unfortunately, it will be Tokyo Bay next in my view, instead of SF Bay).
As you're already aware, the backstay is the least critical of a Mac's standing rig. I'm sure you could do it yourself, and you could switch to an adjustable backstay at the same time. However, I didn't do my own, Eric Lowe shortened my backstay with hand-swaging gear, and then I added the split arrangement.
However, the bigger issue I want to study is the other wires. If your backstay is showing it's age, they can't be far behind, right? I'll be looking closely next time at the boat. (Unfortunately, it will be Tokyo Bay next in my view, instead of SF Bay).
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Chip Hindes
- Admiral
- Posts: 2166
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:13 am
- Location: West Sand Lake, NY '01X, "Nextboat" 50HP Tohatsu
I agree with Frank it's something you ought to be able to do yourself, and doubly on inspecting the rest of your rigging for similar problems.
If you're not comfortable, send the old backstay or the measurements out to the West Marine Rigging Shop and they'll do a new one for you. If you want a duplicate of the original they will recycle the original vernier adjuster (as long as it's sound) and you can save a buck or two. You can do it by mail or special order through the customer service desk at your local West Marine. Their turnover is usually pretty quick though they may be busy this time of year.
The old Havencraft (now macgregorparts.com) used to have all the rigging pieces available, but I can't recommend macgregorparts.com based on all the bad reports.
If you're not comfortable, send the old backstay or the measurements out to the West Marine Rigging Shop and they'll do a new one for you. If you want a duplicate of the original they will recycle the original vernier adjuster (as long as it's sound) and you can save a buck or two. You can do it by mail or special order through the customer service desk at your local West Marine. Their turnover is usually pretty quick though they may be busy this time of year.
The old Havencraft (now macgregorparts.com) used to have all the rigging pieces available, but I can't recommend macgregorparts.com based on all the bad reports.
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Scott
- Admiral
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 12:46 pm
- Sailboat: Venture 25
- Location: 1978 Catalina 22 with all the Racing Goodies!! 4 horse fire breathing monster on the transom
I used http://www.supersail.com for my uppers and my forestay when I had fray.
His turn around was pretty good and he has the factory measurements.
Remember to coil up the frayed one under aft berth for emergency spare.
His turn around was pretty good and he has the factory measurements.
Remember to coil up the frayed one under aft berth for emergency spare.
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Jeff S
- First Officer
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:13 pm
- Location: Cherry Point, NC 2000 26X Tohatsu 50
I bought the line for my forestay from www.layline.com -the wire prices were much better than elsewhere. Sailnet has decent prices too. I think the line for the backstay is 1/8" (and all the stays), if anyone can confirm that. You will also need a few thimbles and some swaging sleeves (really inexpensive). I also used the WM tool at the store.
For the the other stays I recommend having them done- now that I have done the forestay myself. I swaged 2 loops on my forestay before I realized a loop wont fit through the furler
. I cut one loop off and bought the stud for the turnbuckle with an open wire end to swage onto the wire. The WM tool is insufficient for that job. I took the parts to an intermediate level maintenance aircraft machine shop (I am a Marine and have access to some pretty good stuff)- they swage things on to control cables for C-130s and such. They had a really nice pneumatic swaging tool that has a whole box of different sized sleeves that fit around the stud which the tool then jackhammers into place with some impressive force. I think it is far better than the nicopress used for the original swages. I also increased the size of my forestay to 5/32". They also tightened up my swages on the the sleeves (2) on the top part of the stay.
As mentioned before the backstay is the easiest to do yourself as it experiences the least load and has only 2 loops- which are relatively easy to swage. You might think about making an adjustable backstay on one end. Regardless- take good measurements. The comment by Frank C about the other stays needing inspection is probably the best advice on this thread. Unless you have access to some pretty high speed equipment I would give measurements to one of the mentioned companies or local sailmaker or rigger and have the other stays done professionally. Power sailing center quoted me $70 to have a forestay made (1/8") which was his cost as he has it done with a local rigger. I was able to buy all the parts for under $40 for the forestay with larger sizes. It should be even cheaper for a backstay without having to buy a turnbuckle stud on one end. One good thing- I met Erik Hardtle at West Marine while swaging the sleeves that I had to remove. Small world.
For the the other stays I recommend having them done- now that I have done the forestay myself. I swaged 2 loops on my forestay before I realized a loop wont fit through the furler
. I cut one loop off and bought the stud for the turnbuckle with an open wire end to swage onto the wire. The WM tool is insufficient for that job. I took the parts to an intermediate level maintenance aircraft machine shop (I am a Marine and have access to some pretty good stuff)- they swage things on to control cables for C-130s and such. They had a really nice pneumatic swaging tool that has a whole box of different sized sleeves that fit around the stud which the tool then jackhammers into place with some impressive force. I think it is far better than the nicopress used for the original swages. I also increased the size of my forestay to 5/32". They also tightened up my swages on the the sleeves (2) on the top part of the stay.As mentioned before the backstay is the easiest to do yourself as it experiences the least load and has only 2 loops- which are relatively easy to swage. You might think about making an adjustable backstay on one end. Regardless- take good measurements. The comment by Frank C about the other stays needing inspection is probably the best advice on this thread. Unless you have access to some pretty high speed equipment I would give measurements to one of the mentioned companies or local sailmaker or rigger and have the other stays done professionally. Power sailing center quoted me $70 to have a forestay made (1/8") which was his cost as he has it done with a local rigger. I was able to buy all the parts for under $40 for the forestay with larger sizes. It should be even cheaper for a backstay without having to buy a turnbuckle stud on one end. One good thing- I met Erik Hardtle at West Marine while swaging the sleeves that I had to remove. Small world.
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Frank C
I had my new 5/32" forestay prepared by our very well-known (SF Bay area) Svendsen's Rigging Shop for only $50, with the machine-swaged turnbuckle stud. (cannot remember what he provided for the top, probably a machined eyelet). I just took him the old forestay and asked for 4 inches shorter (differential measure) ... measuring the total length was his responsibility, which they do in-shop as part of their service.
When I replace the shrouds I'll do the same, and probably switch over to turnbuckles at that time. Factory shrouds are all carefully matched for length. Since I shortened the forestay, all of my shrouds are at the length-limits. I'll get turnbuckles, perform only "differential" measuring versus the Verniers, choose an increment (e.g. 2" longer), then let the Rigger do his thing. (Remember that too long is a problem, too short can be tabbed longer).
No offense intended for anyone who's done their own wires, and I feel that a DIY backstay is fine. But IMO, the remaining wires deserve more respect than the factory-style nico-pressing.
When I replace the shrouds I'll do the same, and probably switch over to turnbuckles at that time. Factory shrouds are all carefully matched for length. Since I shortened the forestay, all of my shrouds are at the length-limits. I'll get turnbuckles, perform only "differential" measuring versus the Verniers, choose an increment (e.g. 2" longer), then let the Rigger do his thing. (Remember that too long is a problem, too short can be tabbed longer).
No offense intended for anyone who's done their own wires, and I feel that a DIY backstay is fine. But IMO, the remaining wires deserve more respect than the factory-style nico-pressing.
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
I agree that the backstay is without a doubt the least important. I'm even considering going to a small diameter, high tech, low stretch line in it's place. These can easily match the 1/8" wire breaking strength. This would make it easier to handle when trailering.
I too would like to see a better grade of system for the stays. All swaged turnbuckles would be an improvement. The only real advantage of the factory adjusters / thimble system is it's durability when trailering. It has more joints that can bend and flex than a turnbuckle system. Bend a turnbuckle and you're day is done.
I too would like to see a better grade of system for the stays. All swaged turnbuckles would be an improvement. The only real advantage of the factory adjusters / thimble system is it's durability when trailering. It has more joints that can bend and flex than a turnbuckle system. Bend a turnbuckle and you're day is done.
