Standard or automatic

[Zoran]

I would not like to start one more heated discussion, but I am currently looking for replacement vehicle for my Astro van. I am the only driver in my family (until my son reach 16 which will be in year +6 months for licence) and I will use same vehicle for work too. I am looking in mid size SUV and I like driving standards. Finaly my question, by your opinion what is better for towing, standard or automatic transmition (with respect to reliability, maintenance and life expectancy).

Zoran

[Chip Hindes]

I like standard transmissions, too. On sports cars. However, for towing, without any question, automatic is better. Look in the owner's manual for the vehicle you're considering, and you will see the automatic always has a higher towing capacity. Make sure your SUV has heavy duty cooling and transmission cooler, change the fluid once in a while and the automatic will last as long as the vehicle. Get a manual and then do a lot of towing, and you will be probably be replacing the clutch.

If you want an education, find a steep boat ramp and then wait for somebody to try to pull a big boat up the ramp with a manual trans. The smell of burning clutch and the sound of spinning tires should convince you.

If you tow very infrequently, you should be OK with a manual; it's just not the best choice. If you get a 4WD which has a low range transfer case capability (some don't have this) you can shift into low range at the ramp and avoid some of the problems.

I anticipate that some manual transmission fanatic will point out that most long distance semi-tractors have manual transmissions. They also have diesels with high torque but fairly narrow speed range, which is better suited to manuals, and close ratio 12-18 speed transmissions to take advantage of it.

[Zoran]

Thanks Chip

[26'M'ike]

I'm the guy who was considering using a Maxima (mid sized car as per MacGregor's sales material) to tow my .
Fortunately the forum talked me out of it, so I shopped around and have ended up with a Toyota 4Runner which is a truck-based SUV that can comfortably tow 5,000#. There is no standard option and all the competing dealers I spoke to said "automatic" for best towing, especially on ramps. The 4Runner has hill start assist control which prevents the vehicle sliding backwards on a ramp after changing from park to drive.

[Robert]

I use Isuzu Trooper 5 speed manual for towing. Some friends use automatic Troopers even up to 7000# towing a trailer with another car on it hundreds of miles regularily. The tow rating is the same for the manual or automatic versions. The Trooper's automatic version does not need any additional transmission cooling even when towing above the rated 5000#, the manual does not need a cooler either obviously.
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I drive the manual for the fun. A Trooper or most any vehicle with a manual feels like it has more power than the automatic version. I do use the low range on the ramp and can pull the boat out at just above idle with the clutch fully released. I usually leave it in low until I do the "MacGregor Bump" then switch back. Going into low range once in a while is good for the truck, it helps keep the 4wd in top shape.
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Troopers also have big disc brakes on all four wheels which is a comfort with a heavy trailer to stop. Troopers are no longer sold as new in the USA and they have a really low resale price, however they are built extremely well. Even consumer reports which admitted that they got the Trooper up on two wheels on purpose for the publicity stunt, says that the Trooper is by a wide margin top in its class for build quality and long term reliability, recently only edged out by the New version Toyota 4Runner. This means that the Trooper is considered by CR to be better built than the Toyota LandCruisers that cost 2X to 3X as much.
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If you would want the best tow vehicle and that was the only requirement you would only consider the 3/4 ton pickups or suburbans etc.. But since you are considering a mid size SUV you must be concerned about daily driveability and fun when not towing. I suggest that the Trooper 5 speed would fit the bill really well. It is just about the only mid size SUV available with a 5 speed.

[norbert]

hi friends there on the other side of the big puddle, there is obviously a big difference between cars and trucks here and there.

in europe manual transmission is the standard, and i'd guess that 90% of suvs and trucks (and cars!) have 5 or even 6 speed gear boxes. also the bigger part of them have diesel engines. fuel is expensive here!

i had a 92 nissan patrol 4wd 2.8 litres diesel with only 115 hp but a lot of torque, and it pulled the 26x so well that you almost didn't remark that the trailer is behind you (unfortunatly it has been stolen 1 year ago). it had a low gear (so finally i had a 10 speed transmisson) and as robert said before it pulls the boat out on almost idle speed without problem even on a steep ramp. diesels are much better for towing!

modern suvs like the volvo xc90 or nissan x-trail/murena come without gear reduction. i agree in that case that automatic transmission may be preferable. but nothing is better for towing than a good old heavy diesel truck!

[Frank C]

Fortunately the forum talked me out of it, so I shopped around and have ended up with a Toyota 4Runner which is a truck-based SUV that can comfortably tow 5,000#.

Mike,
Quick word of caution . . . my son's '97 Toyota Tacoma pickup was also rated for 5,000# towing, but strangely the rear springs were too weak to handle the Mac's tongue weight. When hitched up, the truck was clearly sagging in the rear, a dead giveaway. If you find your 4Runner's tail wagging (even more possible with rear seat passengers) you may need to beef up the rear springs. He would have installed Air-Bag shocks had he kept the pickup.

[Robert]

Trooper can handle the Mac26X 300+ lb. tongue weight no problem. There is also available for most vehicles aftermarket rear springs with a more progressive rate that help. Then you can get into making sure the tires are providing good handling to prevent sway and sway bar bushings, shocks etc... The suspension upgrades are inexpensive and easy to do.

[Flip]

My Jimmy squatted too much. I got rear shocks with the helper coils and it rode level. If only the differential had survived I would still be towing with it.

[26'M'ike]

Frank C,
Thanks for the warning about Toyota rear suspension. Apparently my vehicle has XREAS sport suspension which might be a bit stronger but unfortunately I will not be able to check it out until spring comes to the great white North!
I guess we shall see, but at least it will be better than a Maxima.
I wonder how many people actually tow a 26M or X with a car?

[Robert]

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040129/lath105_1.html

[Frank C]

SNIP ... I wonder how many people actually tow a 26M or X with a car?

Quite a few have reported towing with very small vehicles. Bet very few do that for any great distance, though. Don't even know that your 4Runner will have that problem, but at least it would be an easy one to fix.

[Zoran]

I beleive that somebody on the old forum stated that he launch and retreive his Mac with Toyota Corolla, but total tow distance was couple hundreds meters only.
Thanks for response guys. I really like driving standards, in marginal conditions I feel that I have more control with standard and fuel economy is better. On the other hand towing is very small percentage of total mileage and my feeling is dry dock beside launch and a car could do it, so save on gas and help enviroment even more. I am so confused too many choices and too many good cars in every category. I wish that buying a car is the same as buying a boat. Mac is so ahead, (actually the only) in the category and that buy was so easy.

[Robert]

Find one of the very rare 5 speed manual transmission Chevy Astro mid sized vans. This is a collector item and therefore should not go down in value. It is also an old van which makes its price low. I don't really recommend towing with a collectable, but just thought I'd mention the idea of an old tow vehicle that could be considered part of the trailer. Maybe an old beat up full sized pickup truck that could also be used to haul away yard debris etc.. And get a real nice little commuter car for the fun driving a manual part. Once the tow vehicle is old enough to be a trailer accessory, its value will not go down much more over time. As long as your state does not do the GrayOut Davis tripple car tax trick on you the extra vehicle should not cost much to keep.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I don't know about that one. I had the idea of just buying an extra (third) vehicle like you mention, until I called the insurance company. I was flabbergasted to find out that it would be about a 50% increase in price and car insurance is pretty hefty down here in Florida.

Frankly, I couldn't believe it, I would have thought that if you had 3 vehicles with only 2 drivers that there would only be a token increase for the third vehicle. In other words, insure the drivers, not the vehicle. But apparently, Nationwide wants to insure the vehicle as if all three could be driven at the same time. Who knows, maybe the insurance agent made a mistake and I should inquire again, but at the time, it did not seem worth it to be paying an extra $110 in insurance or whatever it was, per month, to own a junk truck.

I think this policy varies by region though because my sister who lives in the U.K. does not get subjected to this kind of scam. Any insurance experts amongst us wanna comment on this?