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kziadie wrote: ... (at least without taking risks I was not willing to take for a winch handle). It was a sobering reminder of how difficult a man overboard exercise can be. ... Kelly

Spinning from Kelly's comment, and with NO critique intended here, just a word of satisfied experience . . .

During the first day in the ASA Basic Keelboat class they teach a remarkably simple technique to retrieve a Crew OverBoard (COB), under full sail . . . amazingly simple, quick, and effective.
ASA's Modified Figure-Eight technique is described most simply as ...

2. First crew aware SHOUTS the alarm;
   
3. Same crew POINTS constantly at COB
   . . . (arm outstretched & eyes never leaving);
   
4. Helm immediately heads onto beam reach, up or down regardless current point of sail
   . . . (i.e., no tack, no gybe, only trim to heading, COB & boat remain lateral vs. the wind);
   
5. Sailing 4 to 5 lengths distant, NOW tack 180 degrees onto opposite beam reach
   . . . (no gybe, identical trim, opposite heading, no thinking req'd, nearly automatic);
   
6. Following POINTER's directions, sail just downwind of COB
   . . . (trimming to gradually slow the boat [<2 kts] as distance closes);
   
7. Head-up at COB, bow-on the wind, sails full-luffing, stops the boat, COB abeam.

With 3 students aboard, we practiced this repeatedly w/throw cushions. Each & every student succeeded multiple times ... guesstimate, we spent 2 hours on the initial training, plus several surprise tests the following day. Remarkably simple technique to understand & execute . . . I'd say that the average time elapsing from SHOUT to recovery was 2 minutes.

It's a trick to manage your approach speed, trimming to slow the boat. But the beam reaching means there's no question of heading or maneuvers, and less chance of losing bearings for a reliable return to the COB. This course is usually taught in a Capri 22, so it's a bit closer to the water and easier to handle than our boats. Nonetheless, that COB training alone, my estimation, is worth the BoatBuck I paid for ASA's 3-course curriculum. Other schools may charge more for the series. Not saying I'd risk the exercise just for a winch handle, especially beam-on to 6-footers. But it's reassuring to fully understand, and trust, this 'automatic' technique.
This is vastly quicker (& safer) than trying to drop sails & outboard, then using the motor.
FWIW / YMMV

The Admiral and I took the Canadian Yachting Association's Basic Cruising course, and that's exactly the procedure we were taught Frank. Now we were off Vancouver island in mid October, so no one actually went in the water, but we practised throwing the COB pole over and "rescuing" it.

Practice it enough and it does become automatic.... the following season (our first with our own boat) I had my dad out on the Mac and his hat blew off....the COB procedure went into automatic and we retrieved the hat first try...not as dramatic as a crew member...but still a good practice drill!

I learned and practiced both the figure 8 and the quick stop methods of recovery under sail at a J World US Sailing class I did a couple of years ago. Like Frank, we did several hours practice with cushions and got the drill down very nicely. Fast forward a couple years.... no practice, taken unawares, single-handed, 30 knots of wind... and the result was not very good. Since that experience, one of my daughter's duties is to spring surprise drills on me from time to time.

Kelly

Good stuff Frank. Beam reach, tacking to beam reach will get you to the MOB every time. Just played it out in my mind and seems like a perfect plan. Need to practice a few times.

Is there any variation on this theme with only the helmsman left aboard, since we most often sail as a couple?

Without a crew member assigned as Pointer, the job becomes vastly more dangerous, just to find the COB. It's truly amazing how quickly you can lose your bearings in waves, and how difficult to see a bobbing head. An important answer to these issues, never mentioned above, is having crew fitted with PFD, whistle and light ... but how many of us do so??

Assuming one is comfortable with single-handing the boat, no variation at all, save that the Skipper must be his own Pointer. I still believe it's absolutely the best way to localize the boat & COB within an area and quickest way to get them together again. Imagine the added complexities of trying to drop sails, while remaining aware of COB's location, and dropping/starting the engine~!?? Much more complex.

If a crew member IS NOT comfortable with single-handed sailing . . . Skip had better stay on the boat! Fact is ... same's true WHEN single-handing, right??

Practically speaking, it's unlikely that many of our sailing couples are both proficient at single-handing. In fact, none of my partners have ever been competent to sail .... or even drop the sails. IMO, all the more reason for serious couples to both get through a sailing course. And for the more casual sailing couples ... be very, very cautious in heavy conditions, try to avoid heavy conditions, and have that whistle & light.

I concur with all of the above, Frank. The key is to practice recovery, to do the due diligence you have done. I think we have all read about procedures and imagined them, working them out in our minds. Yet, as I have put them to the test, even in calm waters, the real world experience is a whole different thing. Thanks for raising this issue as something we all should give serious attention to, easily as pressing an issue as sail trim.

We learned this same method in ASA 101 in Maine. The key to doing it,like anything else,is practice,and I can't say that I have done nearly enough. Maybe I'll try "rescuing " a few mooring balls late in the season,for practice.

I can do a rough water kayak rescue no problem,because I practice it. I've been in 2 situations where people I expected to move in and do a rescue did nothing because they weren't sure they knew what they were doing. So they waited for someone else-and I had to come in from 100yds away.
If your the only boat(or kayak) that's not an option

The bottom line is don't believe you can rely on skills you haven't practiced. They won't be there.

Gotta say .. ditto .. this is the same method I've used and have taught to my sons. In fact, I've recently been reinforcing their sailing knowledge because they are earning Sailing merit badge (Boy Scouts) for which I am the local counsellor. (I must say that I'm a bit harder on them than I might be on another Scout as they are my sons and I don't believe in giving them a break because their dad is the mb counsellor!)

Three things I would like to add to this topic

1 A Lifesling type device is great since all you have to do is circle a POB to get a line within reach at least.

2 The engine/sail combination on a Mac gives you an unconventional method to recover a POB that wont be taught in sailing schools - namely overpowering the sails (luffed if needed) with the motor. This removes the time and complexity of dropping the sails solo

3 A POB pole on the rear stay helps keep the POB visible

Catigale wrote: ... 2 The engine/sail combination on a Mac gives you an unconventional method to recover a POB that wont be taught in sailing schools - namely overpowering the sails (luffed if needed) with the motor. This removes the time and complexity of dropping the sails solo

3 A POB pole on the rear stay helps keep the POB visible

Hmmm.
Stephen, as for #2, I might (or might not) be able to safely accomplish this. But in just imagining it ... motoring, under sail, with the mainsheet free . . .

• - Upwind, is fine;
  - across the wind, beam reach, is fine;
  - broad reaching ... becomes problematic;
  - and downwind, methinks, down-right risky;
  - since getting the bow headed downwind, sail aloft, near a COB ...

Motoring under sail is probably the most natural 'first reaction' that my novice crew might attempt. But a solo novice is surely too easily distracted to think about the boom, the direction of the wind, AND direction to the COB. She'd be likely to knock herself off the boat, or have wind pushing boat right over me.
WADR, motoring under sail is the last techique I'd attempt, much less try to teach.

P.S. whats a POB pole?

..

Frank C wrote:P.S. whats a POB pole?

Politically-correct, gender-neutral alternative to Man Over Board. Think ChairPERSON. I prefer Crew.

--
Moe

Under sail I'd say the main problem for a novice wouldn't be so much coming back -already difficult- but stopping the boat in the right spot to permit recovery.

Thats where the lifesling comes in handy - your helmsman needs to be able to drive the boat in a circle so that the POB can then reach the floating line. I actually practiced this with my 9 year olds last week - they could start the motor and drive the boat through the sails (luffing out) in 15 kts and circle the cushion thrown overboard without difficulty. In 30 kts this would be pretty snarly and I imagine it might cost you a sail but in 30 kts Im going to be tied in anyway...

POB is Person Over Board - sorry for the AWOD (Acronym without definition)

I guess whatever works, works.

I knew POB ... didn't understand the pole.