MacGregorSailors.com

I'm just beginning to investigate the feasibility of container shipping our 26X to France, to enable us to cruise the Western European canal network and part of the Mediterranean. I'm in touch with a guy who's written cruising guides for European canals, and he mentions the possibility of having to pay a VAT of up to 19%, depending on the country shipped to. I'm wondering if anyone has had experience with this approach to cruising, including comments on tax and recommendations regarding insurance options.

Here's some information on VAT which might help. Any advice from UK Customs should apply to France although you may prefer to ask French Customs. One problem which we Brits encounter when dealing with the French is that they speak in a funny language (but that may not be a problem for you!) :-

If you are normally resident outside the EU, and your boat is
flagged outside the EU; and you are planning on coming to the EU
for a visit, but do not intend to move here, you may be able to
claim temporary importation whilst you are in the EU, provided that
you meet the terms listed below.
EU law allows pleasure craft from outside the EU to be temporarily
imported into EU waters free of duty and VAT, subject to certain
conditions. Breaching these conditions is an offence and could
result in seizure of the boat. If the pleasure craft has been brought
in for private use the conditions are that:
• the person responsible for the boat is normally resident
outside the EU;
• the boat will leave EU waters before it has spent 18
months there;
• it will be used only by the persons responsible for bringing
it into the EU and their immediate family who are also
resident outside the EU;
• if the person to whom temporary importation relief has
been granted wishes to leave the EU temporarily but keep
the boat in the EU until their return, they will need to get
prior authorisation from Customs and comply with any
additional conditions which may be imposed; and
• the boat must not be lent, hired, chartered or sold whilst in
the EU
For further information please get hold of a copy of Notice 200
Temporary Importation and Notice 8 Sailing your pleasure
craft to and from the United Kingdom from Customs.
CONTACTS:
HM Revenue & Customs website address is: www.hmrc.gov.uk.

You will also need a special qualification to cruise the European canals - I guess some sailing schools on your side of the water can do this for you.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Great stuff. It sounds encouraging. I'll try following up with the French version of things. May be hard, since my knowledge of their language is limited to what I picked up in high school one year over 40 years ago. Main phrase I recall is "Fermez le bush(sp?)" which translates "Shut your mouth". We were an unruly bunch, and the teacher was constantly trying to gain control and attention. I doubt that phrase will be of much help in this instance, but I'll give them a try.

Thanks again, Mike

Does it also need to be a documented vessel?

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/doc0101.htm#01

A quick glance at Craig's reference site mentions boat length of 25 feet, but also weight of 5 tons. I tend to load up rather heavily when cruising, but I'm sure I fall well short of 5 tons. I haven't read anything so far that requires documentation of the vessel, but will keep an eye open for that.

Chinook, I am curious, what were the quotes on shipping a Mac to Europe in the container?

"tons" is an odd measurement term for boats that has nothing to do with how much they weigh. It is a formula that measures beam, length, and depth to keel or something like that. More a volume sort of thing. still not sure if the mac is 5 ton or not, but it might barely qualify. Most cruising boats from the US are documented vessels. Can't recall the reason, might be to get permission to operate VHF in other countries or might be for port clearance documentation.

Documentation is important - especially in France - they love it - you will spend many a happy hour poring over your ships papers with Customs, the Harbourmaster, the Gendarmerie, the Chief Inspector of Ships Papers and, well, anyone in any kind of uniform really.

This info relates to UK boats going to France but should give you a few clues:-


http://www.rya.org.uk/KnowledgeBase/boa ... erwork.htm

Mike

I haven't seriously investigated the cost of shipping. I seem to recall seeing the figure of $2,500 one way, but don't remember where, and I don't know if that's close to real. I would like to find out what actual cost. Since Macs are sold in Europe, I expect that the exporting dealerships have a good feel for the best possible rates. Any dealers out there with info?

I shipped my x from CA to Curacao and back the cost was 5k each way. i hade to import it and pay tax 3k and then regester it 2hundred and then get a operator permit. it took 6 months.

Craig LaForce wrote:"tons" is an odd measurement term for boats that has nothing to do with how much they weigh. It is a formula that measures beam, length, and depth to keel or something like that. More a volume sort of thing. . .

This was discussed on-Board, long ago. IIRC, the Mac 26 exceeds 5 tons.

Vessel "tonnage" isn't really so mysterious. Most ships move cargo, so it's their gross tonnage that the taxing authorities focus on, as they do also with trucks. Actual vehicle weight (tare wt.) isn't nearly as important as the total weight with cargo. Their formula focuses on volume as a predictor of the vessel's fully burdened weight. It's similar to our focus when considering tow vehicles, think GVWR.

Sounds like it would be cheaper and much less hassle to charter a boat there.

If everything goes according to plan, this week I have one being loaded in to a container in Long Beach Ca for Brisbane Australia.
I have had some minor hick-ups along the way.
Go to a shipping Agent or Freight Forwarder and get a quote (including packing and unpacking) and then work it out from there.
Cheers
Phillip

1 ton is roughly 100 cubic feet of capacity so Ill buy 5 tons (tonnes?) as being close for the 'ships tonnage' number.

Hey Chinook,

I am very interested to hear how this shakes out as I have considered doing something similar myself.

The biggest isue would be freight rates. Many years ago, briefly I worked in the shipping industry. Your first consideration would be to talk to some Freight Forwarders about getting quotes. Get several, they don't all have the same services and rates. Your rates will go up drastically based on value added services. Pay close attention to packing unpacking and transfer fees.

If you are any where near Seattle, the most likely scenario is you will get your boat packed at a freight yard or CFS (Container Freight Station). From there it will be trucked to a rail yard, $100, and most likely shipped by rail to NY or NJ. Again $100, to haul it to the docks where it will be loaded aboard a vessel for Europe. Here is a very important decision for you. If you are able to take possession of the boat near a major port, you can keep subsequent transshipment cost by rail or truck to a minimum.

A full service freight forwarder can make all the arrangements for you and should even be able to handle customs documentation in France. They will charge for this though. You might also want to talk to a consolidator or NVOCC. A consolidator will pack other freight into the container with your boat and reduce your costs. They are pretty good at this and would probably build a bulkhead in the container to protect your boat from loose freight. An NVOCC basically operates as a common carrier but does not own the boat or rail. They issue their own Bill of Lading and then use volume contracts with the vessel and rail owning carriers to get good rates. An NVOCC specialising in Europe will probably save you some money and issue a single Bill of Lading for the entire trip each way.

Be prepared for the occasional awkward conversation. Some of the big players ship thousands of cans daily and deal with very sophisticated cleintele. They might not get too excited about a single back and forth to Europe from a guy asking way too many questions. But there are plenty of smaller to medium outfits out there. The flip side of the coin, some bigger outfits can do it all. They will operate a network of CFS, act as both an NVO and consolidator and do the customs brokerage for you in France. I used to know some quality outfits but that was years ago.

Keep us posted.

Theo