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Quick note from Catigale's log from the weekend

It was a NW 15-20 kt wind from Toronto yesterday, with the fetch making the waves about 6-8 footers so the Admiral and the kids went off land sightseeing, and I took out a friend to try my in heavy weather.

It was rough. We had about 1/2 genny about and full main, but the big waves stopped the boat unless we hit the entry angle perfectly, then we were actually blown backwards (and had to rudder backwards quickly!!) until we got way up again...
We lost starboard jib sheet, but thankfully it didnt get hung on prop or anything
My lifesling got knocked off the stern by waves, had I pulled that back in before any trouble hit.

The mainsail didnt come down gracefully so I went up top to get it - that was pretty tough with 25 degree heeling every once in a while.

I wouldnt take the boat out again in these circumstances - 6-8 footer closely spaced are not fun...I could see any kind of real emergency would be really difficult to deal with

more to come..

The mainsail didnt come down gracefully so I went up top to get it - that was pretty tough with 25 degree heeling every once in a while.

You actually went UP the mast to bring it down? Or just TO the mast to pull it down. I can't imagine going up the Mac mast in those conditions and what did you mean when you said you 'ruddered back' when your boat was stopped dead in the water.

Toronto .. means you were on Lake Erie, right?
... which is THE LAKE with a reputation for short & heavy chop We regularly get even higher sustained winds in SF, but the chop is usually 3 ft maximum. We have a much shorter fetch and calm each night to settle things down.


EtA:
OOps ... I see your other thread about Lake Ontario.

I went sailing with the wife and dog out of Marina Del Rey Sunday. We had 15-20 knots of winds also and 3-4 foot chop. I always felt like we were in control but my wife was in tears by the time we made it to break water. I had her take the helm since she sometimes isn't strong enough to uncleat a line in heavier wind. She didn't like feeling of getting pushed around by the waves and heeling at all although I was always able to control the heel.

deacm wrote:

The mainsail didnt come down gracefully so I went up top to get it - that was pretty tough with 25 degree heeling every once in a while.

You actually went UP the mast to bring it down? Or just TO the mast to pull it down. I can't imagine going up the Mac mast in those conditions and what did you mean when you said you 'ruddered back' when your boat was stopped dead in the water.

No...I think he meant on top of the cabin top....if not....Stephen is better than the man on the flying Trapeez (sp)

JUst on the cabin top....up the mast??? Yikes....we were heeling 35 just from windage...my 200# would have put the boat over in calm weather...

And you went out in this weather - - DELIBERATELY?????

Rick

,,,and I wont do this again....I learned that this weather was too much for the boat and crew..I was woozy for the rest of the day too...

If Iever get stuck in these conditions, Ill remember this experience however.

Was this before, or after you were checking your ballast for leaks

After ..I was seeing fresh accumulate in the bilge at about 5-10 gallons per day...

On edit - I was accumulating the bilge water before this trip and experience.

Catigale wrote:Quick note from Catigale's log from the weekend

It was a NW 15-20 kt wind from Toronto yesterday, with the fetch making the waves about 6-8 footers ...

It was rough. We had about 1/2 genny about and full main, but the big waves stopped the boat unless we hit the entry angle perfectly, ...

My lifesling got knocked off the stern by waves, had I pulled that back in before any trouble hit.

The mainsail didnt come down gracefully so I went up top to get it - that was pretty tough with 25 degree heeling every once in a while.

I wouldnt take the boat out again in these circumstances - 6-8 footer closely spaced are not fun...

Hmmm - The boat took lots of pounding.
Now you notice the bilge accumulating 5 gals per day.
Guess you're wondering if you've compromised that joint betw. ballast tank and hull?
Guess I'm wondering too ... Good luck, Stephen!

Labor Day Weekend was a Nightmare on Long Island Sound as well. Went out Friday with wife (not a good sailor) and mother (loved the excitement but was no help). Wind was blowing 20-25 knots before Ernesto rains came through. Usually waves aren't a concern up as far as we are in the sound since there isn't enough fetch from three directions to build waves over 3 or 4 feet.

But with Ernesto, we had due easterly winds that were blowing waves 6-8 feet high the whole length of the sound from Block Island to the Throgs Neck bridge. Sneaky thing was the Stamford harbor entrance is still protected a bit by a point of land to the east so the waves seemed reasonable. Flying about 75% of my 150% genny only (no main) we were ok until we got about a mile out and then the wind picked up to 30 knots and the waves hit 6 feet and they were very short together. The wife (who shreaks at any heel over 10 degrees) began crying and went cowering in the cabin. Mother put on pdf and rain jacket and seemed to actually enjoy it. I was concerned enough that I promptly sailed behind the nearest point of land to lower the sail and raise board and rudders.

Trip back into and then across the wind under power was a nightmare. Seas were then hitting 8 feet periodically. I'm not sure if I should be happy my 99X handled the waves (with a ton of effort on my part) or worried that if I hadn't been fiercely vigilant in keeping the nose quartered to the waves, the boat would have gone broadside to them and rolled over on the next crest.

We got back unscathed. The wife literally shook for the next two hours. Mom was happy for the excitement. The boat was none the worse for wear. I obviously had ballast tank full from the moment I left the dock with winds even approaching 20 knots.

$1500 engine repair on my Merc Bigfoot 50hp done the week before was easier to swallow given it performed flawlessly.

Went back out Sunday. Had 15-20 knot winds coming from the due west this time. That led to more normal 3-4 seas. Still somewhat uncomfortable but we made the 5 miles to Loyds Neck on Long Island in just 1 hour. We motored back and the wife freaked again with even the smaller waves. I'm very worried she may be off the boat completely now. We've had it for 4 years but no matter what the activity, once she has a scary moment, she'll be resistent to do it for about one year, then she'll tell me she won't do it anymore after that. This has happened after we got her $3000 in scuba gear, $1000 is skiing equipment and $500 in rock climbing gear. Could this be the beginning of the end for me as a Mac owner?!?!?!?!?!?!?

One other note, some may remember I installed Sting Ray fins before this season on the engine. I've been torn about them all year. At first, I thought they contributed to extra rolling in heavier seas but I'm not certain about that after this storm. They absolutely bring the bow down at all speeds. You lose a good 1-3 mph off the top end. I've used them now for a good 30 trips but may take them off to see if handling is better without them.

The wife and I just had a conversation an hour ago that sailors should get out and train in unusal conditions so that they do not get in panic situations and not know what to do. Like I am thinking I need to sail my boat back into the marina and try to get back to the slip without the motor a few times, just in case. I feel like I am an urban cowboy who can sail fine on a nice pristine Sunday afternoon, but if conditions became dire, lack of experience could be dangerous. So I am thinking when the winds get to 25, I need to get out there and pay some dues to know what to do in situations that could pop up without notice. Not knowing ahead of time how to naturally react to situations is foolish.

Chris, bravo for weathering the storm and coming out good. Your Mom sounds cool. I sure don't blame your wife though. Your experience would be unsettling for most. My wife recently took sailing lessons from a Pro so that she will feel more comfortable and in control. She still freaks at 15 degree heel.

Well that is interesting that the waves would be close together on the great lakes. I always heard that they were so big that they basically acted like open ocean. Out in the open, a 20 kn wind (force 5) will be 6-8 foot waves but typically they are further apart. I have windsurfed in these types of conditions many times in my youth (and it was a lot of fun).

In the Mac, you definitely start getting beat up in these kinds of conditions (when sailing becomes a highly physical workout instead of a leisure activity), but I have been out in them, even higher once or twice (25-30). The difference in Tampa Bay (considered inland waters) is that the waves don't get higher than about 4-5 feet in the leeward part of the bay and much lower than that on the windward side. But they will be more like a closely spaced chop which you can't go fast through without beating the hull up.

At 15-20 or over, I'm gonna be reefing my main and preferably be flying the flatter jib instead of the genny. You have to shorten sail in time or you will be miserable. With the family on board, I will motorsail for highest comfort. Ie, motor the boat through the waves at 4-5 knots and put out a patch of headsail to control the rolling. I think that is a considerably smoother ride than motoring with no sail out at all. The X does not sail well in heavy winds with too much mainsail, tends to stall out and go into irons.

If you want to become a better sailor, I think you have to push the limits a bit once in a while. For sport sailing, being right on the edge of reefing (say right around 15 kn or force 4) is about the best wind you can get IMO. But its a fine line as the fun factor starts diminishing rapidly as you exceed 20 and have to be fighting the sails in a wrestling match to get them under control.

Mom is certainly cool. When we took up indoor rock climbing, the wife was all freaked out, mom at 64 went all 40 feet up and down smiling the whole way. BTW, dad died 8 years ago and mom is available Any well off mac owners out there interested in a 64 year old outgoing Italian widow who looks like she is 50 who lives in Michigan but visits Connecticut all the time????

Wife needs help!!!! As she ages, she's becoming afraid of even her shadow (and I mean that seriously...she recently jumped at her unexpected reflection in a mirror at a friend's house!!!!!)) Where can I get her sailing lessons and how much do they cost?

I wholeheartedly agree that we should go out when conditions are marginal to test ourselves and help us become better seamen (not just sailors). I grew up on the Great Lakes and my dad made me go out on our fishing boat in miserable weather to learn how to handle large seas, recognize weather, etc. These were lessons I really value now. I knew how to handle the weather this past weekend but given the extra challenges of the Mac (high freeboard, high center of gravity, flat bottom, etc) it put all my experience to the test.

And speaking of sailing into the dock, I did that (successfully mind you) about a month ago in light winds. We sailed the entire two miles up our channel to our slip and managed to dock without ever touching the motor. It was the most satisfaction I have had since owning the boat. We did it just with the foresail (genny) in 3-4 knot winds. You need a decent crew due to the frequent tacks required. It was fun!!! I did have the motor ready to go just in case.