Newbie questions on motors

[Mark Prouty]

Yamaha makes a good 4 stroke and sells them in Russia.

Yamaha Motor Establishes Sales Subsidiary in Russia

Yamaha 4 Stroke

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewt ... ght=yamaha

[Tom Spohn]

Vladimir,
Dobrii den,
Everybody will have their favorite motor so you will get many different recommendations on this board. My suggestion would be to find a dealer that is nearby wherever you are keeping your boat. My personal favorite motor is the 50 or 70 hp Suzuki. You have a dealer in Mocba.

http://www.micapeak.com/mc/addrs/asuzuki.html

[Frank C]

Vlad,

Welcome as a new Mac owner! I agree with advice from Tom and Mark just above. My outboard is a Suzuki 60, Tom has a Suzuki 70, and Mark has a Suzuki 115! But you should to choose the brand that is best supported by a dealer in your region.

Here are a few suggestions from my experience. The Macgregor has more water surface and drag than many sailboats. Also, many Mac owners are interested in getting the boat "to plane," rising on top of the surface and gaining speeds of 15 knots or more. A common wisdom for planing performance - a large propeller is usually a better choice.

If planing is useful to you, most 50 hp outboards use a maximum of 12" prop diameter, but the Mercury Bigfoot can use a 14" prop. That's why you see that motor is a frequent choice. You'll also see other large outboards were chosen because (several years ago) they offered both electronic fuel injection (EFI), and also use the larger prop. An example is the 3 large Suzuki motors by Mark, Tom & myself. In the most recent years, Mercury also offers both features. I'm sure you are aware that electronic features can be difficult to repair, should you have a problem in remote areas.

But even for your fast rivers, you have probably been successful with your smaller sailboat & only a 4 hp outboard. Since fuel economy is especially important in your cruising area, you can probably be quite successful with a much smaller outboard. Some owners here are quite happy with a 10 hp or a 15 hp outboard, just to move the Mac at non-planing speeds, about 6 or 7 knots.

Finally, though not available in the USA, you may be able to find a diesel outboard manufactured by Yanmar, either in 24 hp or 36 hp models. I only mention this possibility in the case that fuel might be common in your region. Best of luck!

[Moe]

First, make sure you're comparing the same octane numbers. The published octane in many parts of the world is the Research Octane Number (RON) which indicates how the fuel performs under light load. Rarely published is the Motor Octane Number (MON) which indicates how the fuel performs under heavy load, and is a lower number than RON. Octane rating used in the US is the average of the two, known as the anti-knock index or (R+M)/2 octane rating. To satisfy a US requirement for 87 octane would require 92-93 RON in other parts of the world. Except for some of the supercharged Mercury Verado outboards, I'm not familiar with any small outboards that require greater than 87 (R+M)/2 octane.

When it comes to reliability, probably the biggest problem area with outboards is the carburetor... getting clogged jets, etc. That's even more true with emissions-restricted models than it was in the past. Electronic fuel injection is definitely more reliable, but isn't available on the smallest motors. It also contributes to better fuel economy, especially at less than full throttle, i.e. at cruise.

The typical small boat powered by a 50 HP outboard is less than half the weight and is more than twice as fast as the heavy MacGregor. At that higher speed, a higher (lower numerically) gear ratio and prop with greater pitch is called for. That prop is usually a smaller diameter to reduce drag at higher speeds. The standard foot Mercurys and Yamahas with their 1.85:1 gear ratio are right for these small fishing boats. Compared to them, the 50 HP pushing a MacGregor is like pushing a barge. The lower (higher numerically) gear ratio of 2.33:1, on the Mercury BigFoot and Yamaha High-Thrust models, turns the prop at a lower speed to compliment the boat's lower speed, and it increases the prop shaft torque. The large gear case allows a larger diameter prop for better thrust of the heavy load. Yes, the drag of the larger gearcase and larger diameter prop is greater, but much less significant at the lower speeds of the MacGregor than at the higher speeds. These are also the same gearcases used on 75-115 HP motors, so their components are a bit more robust.

The powerheads (engines) used in the Mercury and Yamaha 50-60 HP 4-strokes were co-developed, co-produced, and essentially the same. If you go the Yamaha route, I strongly suggest you buy a High Thrust with the T prefrix, rather than just the standard versions using the F prefix.

The appropriate leg length for an outboard on the MacGregor transom is 20 inches.

Other desired features of the outboard are remote throttle and gearshift, as well as power trim and tilt.

As for the power of the motor, a true sailor probably needs no more than about 8 horsepower on the MacGregor. But having a larger motor has several advantages. First, the boat has a lot of freeboard and wallows and yaws all over the place without sails to steady it, especially in cross winds and currents, and in higher seas. The centerboard and rudders can help, but must be used only at the lowest speeds. Short bursts of high throttle from a much higher (than 8 HP) motor can help considerably in the speed range between those lower speeds and higher speeds where the boat has inertia to help it. Remember also that reverse thrust is your stopping power, and the larger, higher thrust motor has a big advantage here. Another advantage of the larger motor is that it can cruise at a much lower engine speed at the same boat speed the small motor will be screaming along near its maximum engine speed. The final advantage is in resale, where at least a 50 HP motor is expected on a boat designed for it.

[Dominic]

Congratulations on the new Mac - only half way there to getting my own!

The Mac is designed for a large motor and in Europe the cheapest (or should I say the lesser expensive) are the Suzuki brand. I like the 40hp Suzuki fourstroke because it is fuel-injected and more economical and has a good reputation for reliability.

Just my 2 cents...If you don't want the higher power then I would suggest the Mariner Bigfoot range - this is a normal Mariner with a high-thrust propeller and beefed up drive train.

The model chosen would depend on where you sail e.g if facing a current of say 6 knots and want to make a headway of 4 knots under power then the motor you would need would have the power to shift the Mac at 10 knots. A 15hp - 20hp Mariner Bigfoot should satisfy this need. - I only mention this it is my understanding some of the rivers in Russia have quite high currents that can catch the unawares. If currents are neglible then a smaller 8 - 10 hp would suffice. Just check out the electricity charging rates generated by the smaller engines as some of them vary widely.

Suzuki and Mariner have good comparative information on their web sites. The sweetest motor I have ever used was a Honda but I don't consider the extra cost over the others worth it. You should also note some of the variously branded motors are by the same manufacturer so the Tohatsu brand should be examined in this regard.

I understand the desire for a smaller engine. Petrol on the UK/Ireland is nearing 5 a gallon (thats nearing $10 a gallon at $2 per conversion!) and it is only going to get more expensive - even with the smaller engine you will notice the higher fuel bills from your pure sailing days.

Good luck with the boat.

[LOUIS B HOLUB]

CONGRATULATIONs ... hope you have years of fun with your new Mac.

I have a Nissan 50 HP. (same as a Tohatsu). Some folks in my Marina have 70 HP, and one has a 40 HP. Several have 50 HP. I personally dont see a need of anything more than 50 HP if youre wanting boat speed on the water.
My guess is that "make of the motor" wont be as big a decision as finding out what horsepower you'll be happy with. My opinion is that a 50 HP is right for this boat for all the versitility offered by the MAC.

Happy Sailing to you and yours...

[Moe]

Probably one of the most important aspects of an outboard purchase is the availability of authorized service and parts. Certainly, you want at least one good authorized dealer nearby, and not just one who sells outboards as a sideline to motorcycles and jet skis. Having another not too far away is even better, should anything happen to the dealer nearby.

[delevi]

Zdrastvuy Vladimir,

Nice to hear from another Russian. Congratualtions on your Mac purchase! I would concur with the posts above that the best choice of motor would be the one you can most easily get serviced in your area. A 50 hp is probably the best combination of fuel economy and power and will get you to speeds of 17-20 mph (35-42 kilometers/hour) I am happy with my Evinrude E-Tec 50, but looking back, I do wish I got a more powerful motor. Good luck. Vsevo dobravo.

[Catigale]

Hello Vladimir - it is great to hear from 'far away places'

I have the 2002 Mercury 50 HP Bigfoot (BF) with Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI) and have been very happy. I would choose EFI over pretty much any carb engine nowadays, especially in a place where the engine will be 'laid idle ' for winter - my Spring startup consists of

1 put in key code
2 Start motor

The circular accessory around the prop was discussed more than a year ago (I dont know of a good search term for it, sorry) if I recall correctly there was no advantage with this device.

The 14 inch prop allows better slow speed handling and I recommend it - I dont think there is any more hazard to a swimmer with the 14 or 12 inch prop - we never have anyone in the water with the engine running, let alone in gear.

The 60 HPMercury would be excellent choice, especially if service is nearby. I would imagine it would not require transom modification at all, especially if you use it prudently. Perhaps a single plate on the transom backside at best. A person experienced in these matters should be consulted of course, I am not an expert in these matters.

[baldbaby2000]

I like our 2-stroke Tohatsu. The 2-strokes are lighter weight and ours seems to be very reliable. A word of caution though. The TLDI version, at least when we got our boat a year ago, did not run properly at higher altitudes (5000 feet for us and at 8000 feet it barely ran at all). We had a 50 hp Tohatsu TLDI and had to switch to a carburated 40 hp. Both motors have reservoirs for the oil so it doesn't need to be premixed. The good news was that we got about $700 refund due to the lower cost of the carburated version.

BB

[Moe]

These larger motors don't have a clamp-on mount, but are semi-permanently mounted through the transom with 4 bolts. There is no problem leaving them out in the winter, as long as the motor has been placed in a vertical position so all the water can run out of it.

Most manufacturers, including Mercury, recommend that the motor be trailered in the vertical position, but if that is not possible (and it isn't on most boat/trailer combinations), that a motor support device be used. Since the Mac trailer doesn't go all the way to the transom, the usual bracket can't be used. I made a motor support out of PVC pipe for the Suzuki we had on the 26X that I read about on other Internet sources.

The prop isn't all that sharp, but it's a good idea to have the motor in neutral if they're going to use the anti-ventilation plate as a step so if they slip, the blades just turn. And besides being in neutral, the engine should be shut off any time anyone is anywhere near the boat.

[Chip Hindes]

I like our 2-stroke Tohatsu. The 2-strokes are lighter weight and ours seems to be very reliable. A word of caution though. The TLDI version, at least when we got our boat a year ago, did not run properly at higher altitudes (5000 feet for us and at 8000 feet it barely ran at all). We had a 50 hp Tohatsu TLDI and had to switch to a carburated 40 hp.

Do not buy a non-TLDI two stroke if you are even marginally interested in fuel economy, or if you intend to run at high speed for any length of time.

If you don't need repairs, the nearness of the service organization becomes a moot point. If you anticipate needing lots of repairs, buy a different motor. Tohatsus are legendary for their reliability, and my 50HP Tohatsu has been about as maintenance free as anything I have ever owned. It has never in five years needed profession service, and the only repairs required were due to an accident which had nothing to dowith the motor. It almost seems to thrive on neglect.

But it's carbureted and gets terrible fuel mileage. The best I have seen at any speed is about 4mpg; I'm led to believe the four strokes at optimum speed get 2X or more better mileage. Also, at high speed it is noisy enough to be painfull.

I understand the TLDI 2-stoke gets phenomenal fuel mileage and is much quieter, but I don't know if the reilability of the non TLDI version carries over.

My boat is stored outside with the motor attached and in a vertical position, sometimes covered with a tarp but usually not. Temperatures here usually hit -15C a couple times each winter, and occasionally as low as -25C.