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Since I now have the dilema of shopping for new sails, I am going back and forth between a standard jib or a 150 Genoa. I have a jib right now, and with the frequent heavy winds here, I wouldn't use the genny much of the time. Having RF, however, I can just furl in some genny when the winds pick up and still have the option of a larger sail when I need it. I'm wondering how much the shape of the sail is compromised when a 150 genny is rolled in to 100 or less. Also, when at 100 or less, would the sheets need to be run through the jib cars on the deck That could be a pain. I would think that leaving them on the genoa tracks/cars would really screw up sail shape and trim when half the sail is furled in. Any suggestions from some of you genoa guys?

The answer as it frequently is, "It all depends" on how you use your boat.

A genny rolled to 100% isn't nearly as efficient as a jib and won't point as high, but unless you're racing, it doesn't much matter.

The clew of a genny rolled to 100% is much higher than that of the unrolled jib. Switching the sheets to the jib cars will tend to pull the luff too tight and leave the foot too loose. Leaving the genny sheets in the genny cars maintains a better sheeting angle, and you can control genny shape better, rolled or unrolled.

My own feeling is that switching the sheets to the jib cars will forfeit more in sail shape than is gained by getting the sheets inside the shrouds. If anyone has actually tried this, they could answer better.

The Jib or Genny question may depend on whether you talking about an M or X model. The local dealer in the Seattle area, BWY, as I recall suggested a Genny for the 19 or X as the best choice, but recommends a standard Jib for the M. Has to do with overall sail area vs. weight and balance of each model. Something to keep in mind as you hear about the experiences of different owners.

My wife and I raced for a week on Lake of the Woods in Canada. We started with the Genoa and switched to the jib for the last couple days. In general, I'm sure we would have done better with just the jib. Many times we had to partially furl the genoa and upwind performance was not good. The genoa was nice on reaches and offwind but I don't think it made up for the upwind performance. Even when I'm not racing I don't like sailing upwind with a partially furled genoa. I don't think it would work well to run the genoa sheets through the jib cars but I haven't tried. The M does have a taller mast than the X so maybe the X is different. If I had 4 fat people for rail meat I would consider the genoa. When the winds come up now I reef the main and still have to partially furl the jib.

BB

Thanks guys. I think I'll stick with the jib. Those large gennys sure look hot on the Mac, though. Since I see strong winds more often than not, I probably will regret buying a genny, and I don't really want to switch sails on the furler... sort of defeats the prupose. I guess for those light wind days, I can always break out the assym spinnaker. Not much use upwind, but I guess neither is the genoa.

Cheers!

GO for the jib in heavier winds. In my experience it is tough to get a good sailshape with the genny furled in, unless the wind is so strong that you are using 6-10 feet in 'storm jib mode'

With those winds, the sail shape barely matters...

A note on using the cars on the cabin top.

Went out the other day in 15 knots of breeze and tried slogging to windward with about 1/2 - 2/3 of the genny out, and the leads comming back to the cockpit cars. Absolutely hopeless.

The top of the leech was nowhere and boat speed at 3.5 knots reflected that. Changed to the cars on the cabin top, which pulls more directly down on the leech, which improved the sail shape immensely. Result was that boatspeed went up to 4.4 knots and the boat was more controllable, driving through the crests (about .9 metre - er, 3 feet) instead of being blown off of them.

That's good input Lease!

I've never tried it, but I also wonder if my 135 Genoa's clew (not a Mac sail) might be too low to be sheeted to cabintop ... gotta try it next opportunity.
(Maybe it will climb the forestay enough during the 35% of wraps.)

I keep two sets of sheets to my genoa much of the time, one to each set of cars (lighter sheets to the jib cars). Sometimes the lines get a bit mixed up but for the most part it is manageable and you can switch quickly without going up top. With the genny furled to jib size and running on the jib cars you get better shape for beating upwind in higher winds, but it still isn't as good as the jib.

Hi everyone,

I chose not to have a furling system on my forestay and I have two sails that I hank on; a genoa (150%) and a jib (100%).

The genoa is great for light winds and really does make a difference in boat speed versus the jib.
However, as soon as the wind picks up a bit, I have to go and make a sail change fast. The overpowers very quickly and this is evident by the excessive heeling angle.
Even after I have tucked in a reef in the main.

The jib is great and has a broader operating spectrum. But there have been times, sailing upwind, that I want to reduce sail even more.
I am thinking of making a smaller jib, maybe storm sail size, for the purpose.
As we speak my mainsail is lying in my sailmaker's loft getting a second reef stitched in.

I have the standard Doyle sails that came with the boat.

I hope this gives you some input delevi

Is there anyone else out there that uses traditional hanks instead of a furling system?

Happy sailing!

Octaman

I have to add, as you may probably ask; 'Why did I go for hanks?'

1. I am a sailing enthusiast that like to have a full sail out that works properly as an aerofoil should. If you furl you lose shape AND you start ruining your sail because it stresses in areas it should not.

2. When I'm done with sailing, I like my sails tucked away down below where they stay dry, and protected and do not deteriorate with the sun's lethal rays.

3. When I power, the sight of a forestay flopping around on a Mac, with furling gear, furled foresail and all, scares the hull out of me. Besides having the excess weight aloft, I get the impression it may snap off at any time, especially in a chop.

4. No furling gear simplifies mast lowering and raising and when trailering you don't have to worry about bruising the furling gear.

There are pros and cons in both systems, with furling gear and without furling gear. I choose the hanks.

Octaman

Octaman

Your choice of forestay sails and hanks are right on, but I would like to know about that big 70 Honda on the transom? You might just gain some pointing ability and performance with a lighter auxiliary.

They Theirs

You are absolutely right my friend!

A lighter engine would certainly enhance sailing characteristics without doubt.
If you have a Mac though, there is no point in going less than 50 hp; it defeats the purpose of buying a boat with dual characteristics.
The unique feature of the Mac is that it can plane and go 'fast' under power.
If I were to put a 15 hp engine on the boat to improve sailing characteristics I would not have bought a Mac.
I hope I am making my point.

Now, having said this;
I chose the 70 Suzuki 4-stroke, vesus any other 50 4-stroke NOT because I wanted to go faster under power.
I simply wanted to have the 50 hp that the builder recommends as maximum horsepower at cruising revolutions; not at WOT.
Furthermore, if you are caught out in bad weather, as I frequently am because I use the boat a lot, it is always good to have excess power. This is strictly a safety feature.
Additionally, the 14 inch prop I swing gives great manoeverability in the harbour in strong winds.

Now, you may ask, why not a 2-stroke 70hp that weighs considerably less?
Well, I like the quiet operation of the 4-stroke and most importantly, fuel efficiency.
In the end it is always a compromise; you have to figure out what your real requirements are and make decisions that will suit your needs.

I am very happy with my Mac and the Suzuki 70.
I don't race in my Mac, I cruise in her (competitively though)
I race on other boats that are rigged, set up, for the purpose.

This discussion leads to a modification I have made with regard to the helmsman's seat because of the bigger engine:
1. I took it to one of these guys that specialize in working with fibreglass and raised the seat by 5cm (if I recall well) so that the motor swings all the way up when I tilt and doesn't hit the seat. by the way, this has given me a much better view forward as I sit higher.
2. The standard hinge that holds the seat to the boat now has a removable axis. In summer I spend a lot of time at anchor in a bay and the seat sticking out in the air, when you need access to the water to be available at all times for swimming, really hurt my eyes. So now, I just pull the pin out and store the seat belowdecks leaving a pleasant open transom!

Hope I have answered your question They Theirs.

Happy sailing!

Octaman

Delevi wrote

I guess for those light wind days, I can always break out the assym spinnaker. Not much use upwind, but I guess neither is the genoa.

Not quite so, We use our A-sym for downwind in light to moderate winds and upwind (to about 45-50deg) in light to light+ winds.
The trick to this is to draw the luff tight. Im waiting to recieve my new hounds to add a spinnaker halyard specifically for this purpose. The jib halyard is great for inside tacking and downwind sailing but I dont think it pulls the luff tight enough to use the sail to its full capabilities.

As a side note I must concede this point, (the need for a spinnaker halyard) to I believe it was Duanne that I argued the merits of inside tacking with about 2 years ago. I still like inside tacking but it is not an option when flying from a dedicated halyard and I now believe it is necessary to get the luff tension you need for upwind performance.

Delevi

With all due respect . . . .

How do you tension your halyards?

I never thought I would get them tight enough without a little winch especially with a line led straight to the cleat. And I never did.
Until I started using a very interesting version of the 'trucker' hitch.
The purchase you achieve is sufficient to tension the halyards (both main and foresail in even the most demanding cricumstances).
You really need this with a genoa or jib.

But with the a-spinnaker this is not the case.
You hoist the sail to the top and then regulate tension on the free-flying luff by controlling the tack.
You should have a block on the forepeak and a line that attaches to the tack of the sail and goes all the way aft to achieve this.

Hope this helps.

Happy sailing

Octaman