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Questions about my bilge heater and golden rods: I have the golden rods and bilge heater plugged into shore power for the winter. Are there any fire risks with golden rods - seems more like an ambient heat, but I worry about anything touching them. At what temperature does the bilge heater turn on? I read 45 degrees but when I've been to the boat in those temps I don't hear it running and my bottles of water near that compartment are frozen. The green light is on the bilge heater, indicating that it is working. (link to the type of bilge heater I have is below.)



Golden Rods - see I don't know what is "normal" for winterizing boats, and my friend was super innovative with retrofitting the boat. I wish you all lived here so I could show you everything he did. For example, he redesigned the rudders with clamcleats so they pop up if I hit a log/stick, which is common on my waters. That way I don't drag the log or even worse have the 70hp engine prop hit it. Yes, I said 70 hp - I don't think that was standard either.

Here is a link to a golden rod - apparently they are used for dehumidifying primarily - but I have 3 plugged in inside my cabin flooring.

I don't have access to power in the winter and therefore have no means of heat inside my boat in winter. Winter is hard here (Montana) and 2 weeks ago we saw -40F temps.
For winterization I simply remove anything that can freeze and open the ballast to drain. Suzuki recommends wintering the motor in the DOWN position.
I then run some of that pink RV non-toxic anti-freeze through my fresh water pump and wash down pump and call it done.

In the past when I had power, I had a 75w incandescent light bulb to create a slight amount of positive heat to prevent moisture.

I'm not a fan of true unattended electric heat sources however there are several marine grade heaters that I assume are safe to use in this environment.

If your boat IN THE WATER or on the Trailer?

The factory recommended mas 50HP motors on our boats. Mine has a 70 and I've seen 90 and even 115 motors on some of these boats.

Thanks Russ - I sold the trailer, and keep my boat in the water year round - I actually use it year round as much as weather permits.

I don't keep the motor in the down position due to ice and to let gravity drain the water out of it, but I run the gas through it after each use. I don't do anything else to the Yamaha motor besides that, but maybe that is a possibly expensive mistake? ugh. Water here is mostly fresh water/river - maybe very, very mild salinity.

AmandaRuth wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 5:39 am Questions about my bilge heater and golden rods: I have the golden rods and bilge heater plugged into shore power for the winter. Are there any fire risks with golden rods - seems more like an ambient heat, but I worry about anything touching them. At what temperature does the bilge heater turn on? I read 45 degrees but when I've been to the boat in those temps I don't hear it running and my bottles of water near that compartment are frozen. The green light is on the bilge heater, indicating that it is working. (link to the type of bilge heater I have is below.)



Golden Rods - see I don't know what is "normal" for winterizing boats, and my friend was super innovative with retrofitting the boat. I wish you all lived here so I could show you everything he did. For example, he redesigned the rudders with clamcleats so they pop up if I hit a log/stick, which is common on my waters. That way I don't drag the log or even worse have the 70hp engine prop hit it. Yes, I said 70 hp - I don't think that was standard either.

Here is a link to a golden rod - apparently they are used for dehumidifying primarily - but I have 3 plugged in inside my cabin flooring.

This is a bit of a rabbit hole, but hang in there and we'll run it down.

What temperature do you want to maintain in the cabin? Do you have water piping/tankage in the boat that is not winterized?

The link you posted to your bilge heater indicates that it is safe to use in a bilge. Note the following:

"Meets all ignition protection guidelines and standards (USCG, UL-1500) to allow it to be safely used in the bilge compartment."

The golden rods, however, don't appear to have the same listings, or any safety certifications. Additionally, I find no reference to any heating capacity. The bilge heater is rated at 400 Watts, so you have something to work with there. I wouldn't use the golden rods in an unattended boat (or anywhere, actually - unless you find some listings on the device). Look for equipment that is tested/listed by safety testing labs/organizations.

If the unit has a fixed temperature setting (45 degrees), and the sensor is mounted in the device, the only place you can expect the temperature to be maintained is in the device casing. The unit may have the sensor in the fan air stream to try and sense the room temperature. However, depending on how it's positioned, it may just recirculate the heated discharge air and shut off before heating the rest of your boat. The more you seal up the cabin, or insulate, the more likely the temperature in the cabin will start to approach the thermostat setting. Where, exactly do you have the bilge heater mounted?

Have you made an attempt to seal the companionway/hatch gap?

What ambient temperature do you need to protect against (your worst case temperature in your area)?

Does the water around the boat freeze in the winter? If not, your ballast tank and hull mounted lines are probably protected by the surrounding water. If the water freezes around your boat, 400 Watts may not be adequate.

The golden rods, often sold under the very loosely used term, "dehumidifiers", appear to be small resistance heaters. They warm the air just slightly to raise it above the dewpoint of the outdoor air. So, they are not removing moisture, but merely attempting to prevent condensation. Where are these mounted and do you have any info on wattage ratings?

For any given enclosure maintained at a fixed temperature, with a fixed surrounding temperature, there is a balance point of heat applied/heat lost. In other words, if you want to maintain 45 deg F in the boat, floating in 45 deg F water, with 10 deg F ambient, it will take a certain amount of heating capacity (Watts, Btu/h, etc). If we move the boat to Russ's place at -40 deg F, we have to have more heating capacity to maintain the inside conditions. Knowing the conditions, the capacity required can be approximated.

For your bilge heater function question, the green power light being on may, or may not, indicate the device is functional. Plug it in outside in the cold and verify that the device actually cycles on. Step one, figure out what equipment or components are actually working. You can also get a non-contact infrared thermometer to put some actionable information together regarding what temperature various things are. I've done temperature and humidity control work for many years, and can get close to temperature and humidity by feel, but still use thermometers and psychrometers when I need to troubleshoot or verify.

After I posted that the thought came to mind that you keep your boat in the water all the time.

Does the water around the boat freeze? Where that occurs, it can be a problem. When I lived in NJ and left the boat (it was a Hunter) in the water all year, I used a bubbler system to keep the water from freezing. Basically an air pump connected to "leaky pipe" submerged around the boat attached to a thermal switch that turned it on when temps were below freezing.

The ice can damage the waterline and can "pinch" the boat out of the water.

I assume you slip your boat with ballast empty so it can't freeze.

Again, I used a simple incandescent light bulb and opened the bilge compartment to create positive heat to keep things dry.

Now, since I don't have power, I used damp rid buckets over the winter.

Russ - thanks. I will add some steps to getting out of this rabbit hole. My responses are in bold.

What temperature do you want to maintain in the cabin? Do you have water piping/tankage in the boat that is not winterized?

I guess the temp doesn't matter really in the end. I do not have water piping/tankage in the boat that is not winterize.

The link you posted to your bilge heater indicates that it is safe to use in a bilge. Note the following:

great!

The golden rods, however, don't appear to have the same listings, or any safety certifications.

Eek - this info is a bit scary. They have been plugged in like that for years. Maybe I should unplug them for now.

Have you made an attempt to seal the companionway/hatch gap?

Kind of--mostly to keep critters out, but not heat. do you all have a good solution/thread on this?

What ambient temperature do you need to protect against (your worst case temperature in your area)?

Well, that was tested a couple of weeks ago with below freezing temps for days. There are bubblers installed at the marina - but not close enough to my boat. I go down there with a shovel and break up the thin ice around my boat when necessary...maintaining it so it doesn't close in around my hull. My friend installed a water agitator off of his boat, and due to all of the garbage floating in the river (yuck) it jammed it up and broke it quickly.

The golden rods, often sold under the very loosely used term, "dehumidifiers", appear to be small resistance heaters. They warm the air just slightly to raise it above the dewpoint of the outdoor air. So, they are not removing moisture, but merely attempting to prevent condensation. Where are these mounted and do you have any info on wattage ratings?

They are mounted/placed loosely in the storage compartments of the cabin. I will go unplug those today. No clue about wattage ratings.

For your bilge heater function question, the green power light being on may, or may not, indicate the device is functional. Plug it in outside in the cold and verify that the device actually cycles on. Step one, figure out what equipment or components are actually working. You can also get a non-contact infrared thermometer to put some actionable information together regarding what temperature various things are. I've done temperature and humidity control work for many years, and can get close to temperature and humidity by feel, but still use thermometers and psychrometers when I need to troubleshoot or verify.

this sounds like a fun project. I cannot easily unmount it, so I will just open up the boat on a cold day and monitor the temps to see if it engages.

Again, I used a simple incandescent light bulb and opened the bilge compartment to create positive heat to keep things dry.

This seems like an easier fix compared to the golden rods and hopefully safer

I used damp rid buckets over the winter.

I do the same throughout the year here.

Regarding your golden rods…

The lack of any independent lab listing (UL, ETL, etc), leaves you in a position of not knowing the device won’t burn your boat down. In contrast, a listed device has been independently tested to a standard; and you have a reasonable assurance the device is safe for the duty listed.

My first preference would be additional bilge heaters that are listed for bilge duty.

Having said all of that, unless you are storing gasoline, propane, or butane in the cabin, a 26X shouldn’t have flammable vapors in the bilge. So, a listed heater would probably be fine. A heater listed for bilge duty is an extra level of protection.

If water around your boat is freezing, you definitely need to protect your ballast tank.

I would not disconnect your golden rods until you have a suitable replacement. You’ve gotten away with it this long. A few more days probably won’t matter. I would start looking for a listed alternative if you don’t want to purchase listed bilge heaters.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B09BF9N3 ... p13NParams

Thanks JimmyT - I think the link you sent is taking back to golden rods...so if you meant to send a bilge link that didn't work. No worries, though - I'm a proficient Amazon searcher/user... in fact I may have an amazon-shopping-problem-addiction.

My ballast tank is empty, just to be clear.

Bless my heart, as I don't fully understand here...Is the purpose of a second bilge heater to prevent the ice from getting around my boat's exterior? If I had two bilge heaters, do you think it would protect my boat better than just the one (which I will need to confirm the one installed is working when the temps drop again soon.)

I've had it in the water since 2019 during the winters and so far so good - I only had to break up ice around my boat once or twice. Prior to that, the prior owner did the same for many years. So, I'm hoping the one bilge heater is going to suffice...but I can jerry rig a second one for winters if you all suggest.

I agree - I always worry about fires, which was the concern listed in my first post...so I unplugged the golden rods today. It won't freeze for a while, so I have time to get a second bilge heater and problem solve this subject.

Glad I found all of you guys, as I mentioned in my second update of my first ever post on this forum. As a thank you, since I can't buy you all a round of beers, I provided a free & dry hack to cleaning the bottoms of your vessels. If I did it correctly, here is a link to that post: https://macgregorsailors.com/forum/view ... 85#p363085

You will not be able to supply enough heat through your shore power cord to keep the water in your slip from freezing to your hull - my opinion. Bubblers, or other systems designed to keep the water moving around the hull are a better way to go.

I meant to send you that golden rod link. It is for an ETL listed golden rod heater (in the event that you wanted a safer version of what you have). The link you gave in your original post was for a heater that was NOT listed with any testing lab, which was reason for concern. Check the heaters you have to see if they are UL listed, or ETL listed, etc. The device will be marked, or have a sticker to show proof. Maybe the seller just left off the info. In his Amazon post.

Obviously the bilge heater is even safer, so if you go that route, good.

Your ballast being empty is good.

I scratched out a few numbers, and it's going to take quite a bit more heat (like >2kw) than you had to keep the cabin safely above freezing when the water is at freezing point, and the air is well below freezing (thus, your frozen water bottle). So, your bilge heaters and golden rods must have been strategically located to save your systems, or you've been very lucky.

Suggest you try and figure out what the ratings are on the golden rods you pulled out, so you can have some comfort picking an equivalent (or larger) bilge heater. Unfortunately, you are limited by the shore power capacity to protect your boat. So, you can't throw enough cheap resistance heat at it to make it cozy in those conditions.

Thank you JimmyT- and thanks for scratching out some numbers!

I will check out the ratings on my golden rods. Maybe they are compliant. The golden rod link I put originally in the post was just one of the ones I found on Amazon --and maybe not what is installed in my boat since it was the prior owner that installed them. He was good at researching, so I'm hopeful they are compliant. If not, I have time to get a second bilge heater before the weather gets too cold again.

I confirmed the type of golden rods that I have in my boat, and they are meant for boat hulls and other uses. So, I plugged them back in and am sharing the link. This is the type that I have:

https://www.lockdown.com/products/moist ... gJq__D_BwE

Ditto

Russ wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:25 am
Now, since I don't have power, I used damp rid buckets over the winter.

AmandaRuth wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:34 am I confirmed the type of golden rods that I have in my boat, and they are meant for boat hulls and other uses. So, I plugged them back in and am sharing the link. This is the type that I have:

https://www.lockdown.com/products/moist ... gJq__D_BwE

Those look like good products for what you are using them for. And they only consume 15w so you don't have to worry about undersized power cords being an issue.