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Hello all,

Doing a galley upgrade. My mac 26x has the original alcohol stove, I don't even know if it works. I don't find it easy to find the alcohol, and if I did , I don't know if I like how it burns if spilled - it burns color less right? (though all fuels have their issues).

I want to upgrade to a 2 burner system, plus sink. I was thinking about just putting a counter top , then adding some stand alone unit that could be put away when not needed. Put I am still torn on fuel type. I can use alcohol, propane, white gas, butane, electric, or ???

I think we can take electric off the list pretty fast, I just can't see how that will work unless I have a generator or 27 batteries on board.

White gas can "flame up" . Trying to light alot of those style stove can cause some ugly situations, that are easy enough to manage outside in the open air, but would be unsafe even in a house, little lone a boat.


Fual I am considering :

Alcohol - I know very little about this as a fuel, I understand it can burn with out looking like it is on fire, sometimes, I can't seem to find "denatured alcohol for cooking" locally very well, though I am told that you can use a ton of stuff in its place such as HEET at gas stations, and stuff you find at paint stores. The oringo(?) stove, with the canisters in them seem kinda, cheesy, I don't know why, just don't seem well built, or that they would work well, and how do they prevent all the fuel from evaporating into the air and cause many issues with that?

I plan to have a BBQ so I will have propane already I plan to use the small cylinders. I would cook with it and then move it to the outside.storing it in one of those "PVC pods" most likely. Heavier then air, so that sucks, but like I said it is a use and keep outside situation, .. not something I would plumb in. I already have a propane camp stove, works fine.

Butane is even heavier then Propane, but you can get these little butane stoves, single burner each ( and get 2 of them) they are pretty tiny, and the fuel comes in can that look like hairspray.

Other then cooking, I am also planning to add a hot water system. I would heat the water by taking a coil of copper through the flame, to cycle water from, and back to a tank, to warm it up.

It *might* also rarely be used to heat up the cabin if it gets REAL cold at night or something ... but this is unlikely, as even if it it did give some warmth- it would be wet, so ultimatly fairly useless, considering,I would have to get up , go outside, get teh tanks, .. warm up the cabin, . turn it off... return tanks to deck...


Thoughts?

Kevin.

kevinnem wrote: Thoughts?

I think pizza sounds good for dinner tonight!



Actually, I have a lot of experience using coleman fuel for camp stove (and oven!), but not on a boat, so I can't say whether it's a good idea. I suspect the storage and handling to be an issue, was always spilling it and dribbling small bits out of the funnel after filling.

We have a propane style for the boat (came with) but have not used. I suspect it will be the route we go just because of the convenience of stowage and locating fuel.

EDIT corrected fuel type based on later clarification by qualified poster

Not having a steady supply of denatured alcohol is the main reason we went with white gas. I re-did the entire counter top and installed a recessed SS tub for the stove to fit snugly in (you could probably invert it and it would stay in place) and tiled the counter surface as well as installed a SS bar sink.
White gas is readily available up here and down the coast (as well as all the parts required for a “green monster” Coleman stove) you can walk into just about any hardware/fishing store and find what you need. It can flare up but its nothing throwing a frying pan over won’t take care of (unless you fill the tank indoors and have spilled a large quantity of fuel = bad idea) Coleman does make a dual fuel (naptha / gasoline) which I considered as a good back up if ever required but generator problems convinced me otherwise.
Propane is always an option but we cook a lot on board and discarding 1lb bottles is always annoying and so is plumbing in system from a larger tank. I keep two 500ml plastic bottles (plus the tank) and fill from a 4L can at dock. A tank of fuel will last about four-five days’ worth of cooking 3 meals a day. Each plastic bottle is another full tank.
Watch throwing copper line over an open flame. Burning fuel can result in caustic fumes that can eat through soft metals rather fast.
Oh ya and you should always fill any fuel contaier outside in a well ventilated area obvioulsy.

HI Kevinnem,

I just went through this about two years ago as my Mac 26X never had any kind of stove so I had to figure out what would work the best, be the safest and hopefully cost effective and easy to use. I ended up getting a single burner Origo fuel stove and I am so glad I did. The fuel is very cheap and available at most hardware stores. If you have a fire and it spills then you can put it out with water and there are no smells or fumes. There is no pumping and pressure and very very few moving parts to the stove so less parts to break. Its a very hot flame so it can cook up a pot of coffee from nothing to boiling in like 10 minutes. I have a bar B q outside that we cook on and a single burner propane stove that I cook toast on the deck with but no propane comes inside the Mac ever.I think my stove was about $90.00 new and I researched this subject quite a bit and I got everyone's input and safety was number one. Propane on a boat is not the safest thing as it is a heavier than air gas that sinks and you have a great chance or blowing up if you do have a leak. Go on you tube and search ORIGO fuel stove and there is a great video with a 2 burner stove and the guy lights it up and everything:) I hope this helps.

Propane here....installed a two burner and put the 5lb jug under the sink ( secured of course ) and use the 1lbers for the magma grill....stolen mod for storage tubes ( Thanks Guys ) and I haven't had a problem....even here in Texas where it gets as hot as the gates of heck. I also have worked in the HVACR field most of My life and like electricity.... I've learned how to use it safely and how to respect it. That's My two cents worth...... Sorry .... No Refunds or rain checks Ron Dauntless.

Alcohol doesn't burn colorless, it burns with a blue flame. Not the best in visibility, but certainly sufficient. We have the 2 burner Origo stove, which was in the boat when we got it, and we're very happy with it. No plumbing, very safe and easy to use. Downside: when alcohol isn't readily available in your area, I would think again. But that's no concern over here.

Will Johnnie Walker work in a pinch?

Cougar wrote:Alcohol doesn't burn colorless, it burns with a blue flame. Not the best in visibility, but certainly sufficient. We have the 2 burner Origo stove, which was in the boat when we got it, and we're very happy with it. No plumbing, very safe and easy to use. Downside: when alcohol isn't readily available in your area, I would think again. But that's no concern over here.

dlandersson wrote:Will Johnnie Walker work in a pinch?

I have much better purposes for Johnnie Walker.

Yeah, but in a pinch, you can get it just about anywhere.

Cougar wrote:

dlandersson wrote:Will Johnnie Walker work in a pinch?

I have much better purposes for Johnnie Walker.

Last season I made the mistake of trying to use up some Coleman stove fuel in the Origo without reading the manual to not use white gas. What a smoky mess / flame in the boat! Had to set the fuel canister outside on land to burn off for more than an hour!

You should never use a fuel that is heavier than air, like LP. Although it's popular in my motorhome there is a reason why it's no good for 'boat': The LP fumes settle on the floor.

In a motorhome that's no big deal because there are lots of leaks and airspace's down there for the fumes to escape.

But a boat? Nope.

In a boat, any fumes that are heavier than air will settle down in the bilge and stay there ready to explode. They can't disperse. You need to be very careful about what fuel you choose.

As for denatured alcohol availability, here in So Cal it's very very cheap and on the shelf in every hardware store, Home Depot, Walmart, paint, boat and camp store. The home depot stuff is the best because it's in the painting supply so it's pure and stable and VERY cheap - less than bottled water. I do understand that outside of Southern California that might not be the case but here it's everywhere and very cheap. People use it for everything - paint thinner, nail remover, cleaner, glass polish, you name it. My mom used to put it on a cloth and put the cloth on our heads to control fever when we were kids. And if you spill it no big deal, it just dries up in a few seconds, gone! Great stuff in warm weather. Not so great in icy weather.

Alcohol availability is not as plentiful in colder areas.

You obviously have not been on my boat.

BOAT wrote:LP fumes settle on the floor. In a motorhome that's no big deal because there are lots of leaks and airspace's down there for the fumes to escape.

But a boat? Nope.

The oringo(?) stove, with the canisters in them seem kinda, cheesy, I don't know why, just don't seem well built, or that they would work well, and how do they prevent all the fuel from evaporating into the air and cause many issues with that?

Just turn closed the flapper. You can put in a gasket if you like. They are one of the few marine inventions that remains unchanged and popular because they are simple and just work. If you cook at more than 20 degrees of heel for an extended period the flame can heat the side of the burner vs the top if its not gimbaled since the burner is about 4" below the cooktop. You can also order it in 5 gallon jugs online for around $80 shipped. It makes a great cleaner inside the boat too.

If you actually use the stove often permantly mounted and easy to turn on and off without any setup is key. Stowing one several times a day gets old fast and you are less likely to heat something up for a quick snack or meal. The random hot beverage/snack on a whim while bouncing underway is a nice luxury.

Our boat came with butane, we switched to portable propane, and then to alcohol. The portable propane rusted quick in a salt environment.

If you stay in a marina with electric adding a cheap hotplate to your gear saves on fuel.

Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade

Postby dlandersson » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:36 am
You obviously have not been on my boat.

The 26X is a unique boat - it's the only ship in the fleet that will stay afloat even with gaping holes in the floor because of the way the centerboard trunk is designed. Although it's an exaggeration to say that your boat has too many holes in the bottom to collect fumes, it is true that the X boat has places open to the water that are pretty close to the floor.

It reminds me of my old Aquarius 23: I had a capped hole in the top of the centerboard truck to attach a high volume bilge pump. Sometimes underway i would pull the cap and look at the water passing by only inches below the hole. If we got going fast enough water would come through that hole if we did not keep it well capped.

Still, fumes in the bilge are a big deal. That's why most boats use alcohol. There are other fuels lighter than air like the ones mentioned, some people use natural gas (which is mostly methane) and is also lighter than air. Although just because something is lighter than air does not make it a good fuel, Hydrogen and Helium are bad for different reasons I won't go into here.

Propane is heavier than air. I do not see it on boats (at least not boats that are still floating).

*Edit, I'm not sure about Propane, I can't remember what is heavier now, I know some natural gases are indeed okay, the weight has to do with the number of carbon molecules or something like that. As i remember the OCTtane was like eight molecules and the PENtane was like 5 molecules and HEXtane was six? Something like that. METhane is pretty light, I'm not sure about PROpane and HEPtane and BUtane and really from a guy that can't even spell I'm not a good authority on this. I just stick with alcohol to be safe, but I'm sure you can find something with the right amount of carbon molecules to burn in your boat without burning UP your boat.

There must be a chemical engineer somewhere on this blog. Maybe they will read this and tell us what's best without causing an explosion.

BOAT wrote:Propane is heavier than air. I do not see it on boats (at least not boats that are still floating).

Not on small boats maybe, but I don't recall seeing a big boat that didn't have propane. But the cylinders are DOT type, in an exterior locker with a vent to the outside, with a solenoid valve to cut the flow (controlled from the galley), along with the usual manual valve, plus the range has gas valves with thermocouples to disable gas flow unless kept hot. If it's done per ABYC rules, and a modicum of common sense is employed, there's nothing to worry about.