Anchoring

[NiceAft]

There is an interesting article in Seaworthy Magazine about "The fine Art Of Anchoring".
http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/magazin ... horing.asp

Here is the PDF file with the actual test results. www.boatus.com/seaworthy/assets/pdf/anchor-test.pdf.

Ray

[Ixneigh]

I saw that. I'd like to see them try a three piece Luke or similar anchor.
I can tell you that, in unfamiliar waters, at night, in a desperate situation, the fortress isn't what I'd be pitching over the side.
Ix

[NiceAft]

I keep two anchors onboard, a delta and a Danforth. If need be, I use both at the same time just to be sure.

[Wind Chime]

Besides "initial holding", my biggest concern is "Reset". Which they unfortunately did not test.

The true test is having the wind turn 180 degrees at midnight- does the anchor roll over and reset itself without dragging ... so you can roll over and go back to sleep.

[Tomfoolery]

I'm not surprised Fortress scored well, especially with the mud palms set to 45 degrees, something other Danforth-style fluke anchors can't do. They're well made, with very sharp flukes, and mud is a good bottom for that sort of anchor, IMO. They're also the sponsor of the tests, so while I don't think that directly influenced the results (or I like to think it didn't ), it would stand to reason that they picked the location and therefore bottom type.

Different style of anchors are better for different types of bottom conditions, and the Fortress isn't likely to do any better than a Danforth or a claw in weeds. That's where Deltas and perhaps next-generation anchors should do better. Rocks, coral, gravel, hard sand, soft sand - best to have at least a couple of very different styles available.

And I agree that the ability to reset after a wind/tide shift is important. I've never been a fan of the 'anchoring technique' emphasis. If it pops or gets shifted, if it can't reset itself, bad things can happen. An anchor that can reset itself is likely to not need 'good technique' for initial anchoring, though making sure it's set is always wise of course.

[Russ]

The title of the article, "The Fine Art Of Anchoring" initially made me think they were going to teach the actual art of anchoring. How many times have I seen some powerboat full of yahoos pull up, toss the anchor over the side, tie it off and pop a beer. Inevitably it doesn't hold or starts to drag.

There is an art to anchoring (verb). Proper lowering, setting, scoping are all part of it.

As mentioned, pure muscle in holding power is great in static situations. There are many other factors we must think of, the Mac's constant "sailing" on anchor, 180 wind/current shifts and resetting.

I've found mud to be the easiest thing to anchor in. That soft mucky stuff will suck an anchor right in most of the time. I never worry about anchoring in mud. Sand, gravel, grass, all make things more interesting. It's probably harder to test anchors in these bottoms as it's hard to create a consistent test environment. Maybe that's why every anchor holding test I've seen is in mud.

For my money, resetting is most important. I've never dragged an anchor from stress. Perhaps that's because I know how to set it and scope it. I have pulled out of sand and 180 degree shifts. That would be more interesting to see how these compare.

BTW, Seaworthy by BoatUS is one of the most informative boating publications I read. Their case studies of what failed in boat claims is fascinating and worth learning from. Their coverage of Hurricane Sandy taught what works and doesn't in storm surges. What sinks boats? They know, because they have to pay for it.

--Russ

[Wayne nicol]

X2 Russ
an anchor dragging is my biggest concern.
and i know one can set alarms on gps's etc- but thats not enough for me.
up here in the pacific north west, we are usually anchoring in little, narrow inlets, and river estuaries, bottoms are everything except coral, mud, pea gravel, sand and lots of weed.
banks can be very steep, and rocky.
i have often anchored in 60 feet of water and been less than a hundred feet from the shore- and our maximum tidal range is 24'.
so just a wind or tide shift through 180* can put you on the beach in a heartbeat- never mind if the anchor drags.
i always carry two 22lb plow anchors each with 40' of 3/8 chain and 200' rode. and then a spare 200' anchor rode if i need an extension on a set!
all with spliced eyes, and a fistful of galv shackles, and stainless wire.
i have a third anchor( same type!), which is a spare at home- but when i build my roller this winter- i might start carrying it on board!
IMHO value for money, these are the best anchors out there! http://www.anchorlift.com/anchors.html

so what i do is set up 2 anchors. one set so that with the incoming tide it is working, and the other one set so that when the tide changes it will be working, so the two anchors are 180* from each other.
rodes go back to a common swivel and scotchman, and then the boat is attached to the swivel with a short bowline.
that way anchors never have to unset and reset. i am either hanging on the one or the other

takes a little more time and effort- but i sure sleep well

[NiceAft]

X2 Russ
an anchor dragging is my biggest concern.
and i know one can set alarms on gps's etc- but thats not enough for me.
up here in the pacific north west, we are usually anchoring in little, narrow inlets, and river estuaries, bottoms are everything except coral, mud, pea gravel, sand and lots of weed.
banks can be very steep, and rocky.
i have often anchored in 60 feet of water and been less than a hundred feet from the shore- and our maximum tidal range is 24'.
so just a wind or tide shift through 180* will put you on the beach- never mind if the anchor drags.
i always carry two 22lb spade anchors each with 40' of 3/8 chain and 200' rode. and a spare 200' line if i need an extension on a set!

so what i do is set up 2 anchors. one set so that with the incoming tide it is working, and the other one set so that when the tide changes it will be working, so the two anchors are 180* from each other.
rodes go back to a common swivel and scotchman, and then the boat is attached to the swivel with a short bowline.
that way anchors never have to unset and reset. i am either hanging on the one or the other

takes a little more time and effort- but i sure sleep well

It sure would be nice to see a picture of that swivel setup.

Ray

[Wayne nicol]

i will see if i can do a mock up on the lawn, maybe a sketch or two.
i really like the system- works exceptionally well-like i said, just take a little extra effort. but great peace of mind!

[Sumner]

i will see if i can do a mock up on the lawn, maybe a sketch or two.
i really like the system- works exceptionally well-like i said, just take a little extra effort. but great peace of mind!

Yes I'd like to see that also. What you are describing is a Bahamian Moor and we used that a lot for some of the same reasons you mentioned.



The problem has been sometimes overnight or especially if we were anchored that way over a couple days the boat starts to rotate 360 degrees and the lines twist around each other and that is a mess to get out of. If it was more than a couple twists I found out that I could leave the dingy tied to the side of the boat and use the dinghy motor and the dinghy to unwind the boat at the lines.

So with that in mind I'd like to see how you are tying off the lines to the swivel and then from there to the boat.

Thanks,

Sumner

============================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[yukonbob]

I hear ya wayne. Many nights half asleep with my head out the front hatch. We keep the same tackle and would love to see that setup as well. Also...anybody run all chain rode? Besides the benefits for anchoring it would take up less room and balance the boat out. Thoughts?

[NiceAft]

OMG Sumner

That looks like the Gordian's knot Do you use the dinghy to place both anchors, and how do you set the second one

Ray

[Seapup]

so the two anchors are 180* from each other, that way anchors never have to unset and reset. i am either hanging on the one or the other

takes a little more time and effort- but i sure sleep well

Same here. 90% of the time we are in either tidal creeks necessitating a Bahamian moore, or open beach with stern anchor towards the beach pulled taught to prevent rolling, so almost always two anchors. With two anchors there is no resetting to worry about and mac dance anchor swing is greatly reduced too.

The problem has been sometimes overnight or especially if we were anchored that way over a couple days the boat starts to rotate 360 degrees and the lines twist around each other and that is a mess to get out of. If it was more than a couple twists I found out that I could leave the dingy tied to the side of the boat and use the dinghy motor and the dinghy to unwind the boat at the lines.

We anchor about 100 nights a year, often getting the twists you mention, especially when wind and tide fight each other. All I did was take the hoop off the roller. With one line slack the other pulls right through the twists like a tube. When you get the anchor up onto the bow roller just slide the twists over the anchor. Done deal.

Also...anybody run all chain rode? Besides the benefits for anchoring it would take up less room and balance the boat out. Thoughts?

I have on the bow anchor since last spring. 40' of heavy 3/8 and 100' of 1/4" chain then 1/2" line. I tried it with the heavy chain at both ends and noticed a big difference in the anchor setting quicker and deeper with the heavy chain on the anchor end. Overkill but I love it. Quick set every time and takes guesswork out of anchoring. The all chain cuts way down on anchor swing in shallow anchorages since the mac does not have enough strength to drag it along the bottom in most winds. For a Bahamian moor in 10' drop the bow anchor, back up about 150'. drop second from stern, kill motor and pull boat back to the middle of the two lines. Once I set the anchors I clip a large caribbeaner down about 10' from where the snubber clips on to the chain and run the downstream nylon rode through it before up to the bow. The chain holds that line down like a kellet and well below the boat hull and fins so they don't rub the line as they swing over it. Second anchor stored on the stern with line always routed to the bow and stored in the bow locker. It is a lot of weight at the bow and I don't think its a good thing for the X. I ran a 4" pvc pipe straight down to below the V berth, then back under the V berth along the ballast tank to move the weight lower. About 100' fits under the V berth and the last 40' or so is the only weight up in the locker.

[Sumner]

OMG Sumner

That looks like the Gordian's knot Do you use the dinghy to place both anchors, and how do you set the second one

Ray

I believe that...



... picture was taken when we were in that small area just inside the lock where the right arrow is. The total width there is about 200 feet wide. We were sucked up to the mangroves there to stay out of the way of boats going to the lock or from it. Although for 2 days we saw no one as we holed up there with a December storm with high winds and temps in the 30's. During that time if I could I would move the lines on the chocks and cleats to make it easier when it came time to leave.

Putting two anchors down is not hard at all especially if there are 2 of you. Put one down like normal and then back down on the rode with either the wind, current or motor to get you where you want the 2nd anchor down. Tie the 1st off momentarily and back down on it to set it. Then drop the second anchor. I would then usually just pull the boat back towards the first anchor by hand, letting out the rode for the second anchor. When you were about equal distance between them cleat both rodes off. Then back down on the second anchor. We got to where we could do this in 10 minutes or less, but what is the hurry .



You don't want the rodes taught. You need enough slack so that if the boat does have to swing due to wind or the current that when it swings towards the slack rode the boat can swing above it like above. With our shallow draft you don't need much slack.



Above we were anchored at Fanny Keys ( http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... 11-16.html ) where there was shallow water close to the boat and a lot of boat traffic in and out of a marina on the other side so couldn't swing on an anchor and wanted to be there as the small key offered protection from wind/waves from the Gulf.

Using 2 anchors allowed us to get much closer to shore and not have to worry about swinging into it with wind changes. In some anchorages where there were other boats that was big as they couldn't get in that close.

If we were in a location where we could swing but high winds were predicted we would put two anchors down in a "V". Set one normally and back down on it and set it. Then motor up the other side of the "V" and put that anchor down and back down on it and set it. In this case the boat doesn't swing unless you get a major wind change and then be sure you won't end up on the shore or shallow water next to it .

We over-anchor but we never had to re-anchor in the middle of the night except for one time when I noticed we had almost swung onto a boulder that was under the water ( http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... -koot.html ).

Sumner

============================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Sumner]

The problem has been sometimes overnight or especially if we were anchored that way over a couple days the boat starts to rotate 360 degrees and the lines twist around each other and that is a mess to get out of. If it was more than a couple twists I found out that I could leave the dingy tied to the side of the boat and use the dinghy motor and the dinghy to unwind the boat at the lines.

We anchor about 100 nights a year, often getting the twists you mention, especially when wind and tide fight each other. All I did was take the hoop off the roller. With one line slack the other pulls right through the twists like a tube. When you get the anchor up onto the bow roller just slide the twists over the anchor. Done deal.....

Looks like we were replying at the same time .

I'll try taking the hoop off the roller. Do you then replace it? I kind of like having it there feeling the anchor is more secure if we were to get into heavier weather underway.

Thanks,

Sumner

============================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links