Buying an 80s Mac25 - NEED HELP

[NavySailor]

Hi Everyone and thanks for having me in the forum.

I've been wanting a nice day sailor and have narrowed it down to a Mac 25'. I am currently considering two boats. One is a 1981 Mac 25' and the other is a 1986 25'. I've gotten both sellers to agree on a price of $1k. Now I just need to decide which one to get. The both need some work.

The 1981 is in much better cosmetic shape on the exterior. It belonged to a sailing club in Southern Maryland until 2 years ago when the current owner bought it. He's either had it on a lift off season or in a wet slip in season. He's only had the boat out once in two years. The sails are in good shape. It's been raining here a lot lately and the owner has noticed about 2" of water in the bilge which he says wasn't there before. No motor and the trailer has a large hole rusted through the forward support between the side rails. The trailer worries me, not sure if a shop could remove that beam and replace it or not. I've looked around for a trailer locally that wouldn't cost too much and haven't seen anything. Also, the boat is in the water right now so I'm not too sure what the hull and keel look like.

The 1986 needs some work to the hull I think. I'm new to this so I don't know if I am biting off more than I can chew. Photos are attached. It does come with a trailer, a 5HP long shaft Honda, seller claims that all sails are in good shape but "the zipper for the main needs to be sewn." (I didn't even know the main had a zipper!)

I'd love to buy one of these in the next week and get working on it if you all think they aren't a lost cause.

I have photos of both, but I can't figure out how to upload them... I'll work on that and come back.

Please do let me know what you think.

and THANKS!!!

[kmclemore]

An easy way to post a photo is to upload it to http://tinypic.com and then copy the URL link and paste it here, using the IMG tags... like this:

Code: Select all

[img]http://oi58.tinypic.com/23ts2fs.jpg[/img]

... which results in:



If you want your image to be longer lasting you can use Photobucket or one of the other free sites to post your image and then copy that URL and use it here.

[NavySailor]

Here's the 86':

[NavySailor]

86' Part 2:

[NavySailor]

and here's the 81' - it does come with an outboard Mercury 9.8 that has a cracked carb. Owned has a used carb to replace it but hasn't done the work. Also - the trailer is rusty and needs to be completely rewired.

[mastreb]

I would buy both.

The bottom of the 86' has a gnarly looking crack along the centerline. I can't imagine what happened to the boat to cause that, but it ain't good. It also shows painted-over gelcoat delamination on the bottom. Repairing the hull will be so difficult as to not be worth it, and whatever accident caused that problem also caused other unseen problems. So I wouldn't trust that hull, but the trailer and the motor look good.

Opposite of the 81': Apparently good hull, terrible trailer and bad motor.

So, buy both. Put the '81 on the '86 trailer, remount the motor from the '86 onto the good hull. Use parts from the '86 wherever you need to fix anything on the '81. Cut up the '86 hull for trash (it has no recycle value), but keep everything of value: The centerboard, rudder, all the hardware, rub-rail, sails, mast, etc.

Scrap the '81 trailer, keeping any parts of value from it. Repair and sell its motor as you have time.

You can then sell the parts from the scrapped '86 on this site and ebay to recoup the cost of the 2nd boat. It'll take a little time, but you aren't talking about a lot of money in the first place. The centerboard alone could go for $1000, and the mast and boom are both worth half that.

I did this with two '81 Saabs. I'm guessing it'll be a lot easier with boats. Look at 81venture's thread on boat salvage. It'll inspire you.

Matt

[Ixneigh]

If that's actually a crack instead of of just a deep abrasion from hitting the trailer while launching or something, forget it. It would take thousands to repair it and who knows what other damage. Can't imagine how they managed that since that's the strongest part of the boat. You could strip and salvage that hull but cutting one up is an itchy pita. You might be able to crush it up. Likewise, the keel is valuable but a hassle to remove and deal with. Lastly, don't under estimate cosmetics. That's the hardest part to fix quite often. It will cost less to repair a crappy trailer then to do a good job restoring big cosmetic issues. Repainting a boat and doing a better job then just using house paint and a four inch brush can take a lot of time.
Ix

[NavySailor]

Thanks guys - I do not know enough to tell if that was a true crack down the hull or just some seriously messed up gelcoat and old paint.

I honestly had already thought about buying both. Just not sure that I want to mess with that. The boss already doesn't want a project boat sitting in either of our driveways all summer (and I doubt the neighbors do either!) Although - I do have a secondary driveway on the backside of my 1 acre property and there's a shed right next to it. How quickly do you guys think the 'useful' stuff could be salvaged off that hull? I could put pretty much all of it (except the mast in the shed). The boat does have a nice newer looking mount for the engine. The guy with the 81' told me that his lights need to be replaced as the sailing school never used/replaced them and either did he. It truly was a DAY sailor.

The woman selling the cracked 86' really wants to get rid of it. She moved from $3k to $1k pretty darn quick. I'm going to ask her now with a 'cracked keel' if she'll go lower. I live in Prince William County, VA just 25 miles South of DC. I imagine getting rid of a hull shouldn't be too difficult. (FAMOUS LAST WORDS!) I'll call the landfill and a couple of boat yards today and see how to go about doing that. I could always just put it on craigslist and say crappy FREE boat and trailer. You never know what some people will just take.

As for the 81' - any concern about that water suddenly showing up in the bilge? He said there's always been some, but now there's about 2". Like I said, it's been raining a lot. Is it unusual for that much water to find its way into the bilge during several days of heavy rain? The hull does have anti-fouling paint. Is that a problem/issue? I'm truly wanting to use this a trailor sailboat not just a sailboat which can be trailered. Also, he's never had the boat on the trailer. He sailed the boat to his slip and drove the trailer by itself later. He says the lights appear to be in good shape, but the wires to the right brake light are severed, and the hitch electrical connection appears too corroded to repair. Should be re-wired. The tires look barely used.

Oh - and mastreb, how'd that Saab thing go for you? I just had to get rid of my 01' 9-3 convertible. I loved that car. I was hit by a drunk driver and the car was repaired looked great - but the top never worked right again. It was down when we were hit. Ended up being totaled last Fall Luckily though neither me or the boss were injured.
Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it!

[81venture]

I agree...Buy Both!

I started with one about a year and a half ago....I now currently have 7 sailboats over 22 ft in the yard

It's an addiction I guess

the 86 trailer looks too small for that boat. I noticed they have a block under it to keep it from tipping backwards when unhooked....this is prob going to make the tongue weight almost non-existent which will cause considerable trailer sway. this was why I dumped my original VN23 trailer and upgraded to a big dual axle.

Buy both....If the keel is cracked on the one offer her $500 for it....sell the trailer for $200-$300, strip the gear and sails, give the hull away, and you hae extras of everything for the better boat

cheers

dave

[81venture]

Oh, and that beam with the hole in it can be box-welded... I have fixed trailers in much worse shape

[NavySailor]

Thanks 81Venture - question for you, would you drive that trailer 100 miles over fairly flat ground with the boat on it?
I think those are the original Mac trailers. Both of the trailers look the same to me. They're both short.

[81venture]

I would tow it 100 miles...If you are super concerned and don't have access to a welder as I do then I would suggest bringing a cordless drill...Buy a piece of flat steel (at lowes, home depot in the hardware section) about 3-4 ft long. Drill holes in this steel at home...at least 2-3 on each side, and pick up some bolts/nuts too...then when you get onsite place the steel in the channel you pictured, drill holes and bolt it in....It will get you home, is all you need.

A Welder, floor jack, and some other big tools are mandatory pack when I go far to tote a strange boat home. W have had some adventures let me tell you...they are posted in this forum as well....

I just towed a 7000 lb boat 119 miles with an e-150 van that WAS NOT rated to tow something that heavy...on a sketchy trailer that had two flat tires off bead when we got on site..

yeah, you can do it man

dave

[NavySailor]

Thanks for the info - I just get nervous about the idea of the trailer falling apart, the boat dropping on the highway and me on the side of the road ...

Also - how long do you think it would take to wire up the lights if I were to buy a kit from Wally World or AutoZone? I'm mechanically inclined, but I've just never done it before.

I might have to make a blog if this all works out ... A Tale of Two Boats!

Anyone have an idea if those are the original Mac trailers? Found this image on Google, but both of the trailers, for the 81' and the 86' seem to be this length:

[Tomfoolery]

Also - how long do you think it would take to wire up the lights if I were to buy a kit from Wally World or AutoZone? I'm mechanically inclined, but I've just never done it before.

No time at all. Bring a big bag of cable ties. A drill with bits. And a roll of insulated wire to serve as a ground, since I wouldn't even bother trying to use that rusty trailer frame for the ground. Light kits usually come with wire nuts, but some liquid tape will help to keep the water out in case you're driving in the rain. If it comes with a prewired harness, so much the better; all you have to do is connect the two light units at the rear, and even those you may want to strap or tape to the boat if the trailer isn't set up for accepting lights. This is just for getting it home, after all.

As to the rusted member, I agree with bringing some steel to patch as needed. The flanges may be ok, and the big hole isn't a huge worry in itself, but if a hole like that can develop, I have to wonder how much is left of the rest of the member, including the flanges.

I'd also be very concerned with the axles. Not just the bearings, but the spindles and the hollow axle tube in the area where they attach. And the pole tongue, especially back where it attaches to the longitudinal frame members. Bang around with a hammer and listen for softness. It will 'ring' if the steel is solid.

And you'll need to do something about registration, of course, and/or a transport tag or permit.

[81venture]

I wouldn't worry too much about the bearings and what not for a 100 mile tow...I play the odds and unless it's a complete piece of trash or corroded with saltwater the odds are usually good you'll make it...and "within 100 miles" is the range of most road side assistance plans lol

I think they are original mac trailers...I just didn't like mine, so I upgraded when I scrapped a much larger boat....now she tows 70mph with the motor and rudder hanging off the stern....when I originally picked her up on the single I found out the hard way about sway, and how technically you're supposed to remove rudder and motor and store forward...

oh, and half the time I tow junk boats home as is with no lights, no tag...My own boat has lights but no tag. It depends on your state and I guess you're redneck attitude...we are supposed to have tags, but they rarely enforce it, and I have been through checkpoints and they have never said a word

dave