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Hey guys,

It's time for me to consider what to do about my trailer winch. I don't like the strap winch at all--my strap has multiple wear holes in it from folding and it's only two years old. I don't like the winch operation.

I also don't much like the brake winch on the mast-raising gin pole.

It occurs to me that it would be simple to do the following:

1) Install a 12VDC horizontal windlass (non-free-fall) on the chain locker lid. I would get one with a remote control so it can be operated from anywhere on or near the boat. The chain locker lid would be beefed up by laminating marine plywood to the bottom side, and the hinges and latch would be attached to the plywood as well.

2) between the bow roller and the chain locker lid, install a heavy-duty rope clutch.

2) Install a rope rode through the clutch and chain weave an 8000 lb. shackle to it.

The windlass and anchor rode would now serve these three purposes:

1) As a typical anchor windlass. Shackle the anchor chain to the rode and its ready to go. The rode threads through the rope clutch to share the load with the windlass in rough seas.

2) As the trailer winch. The rode would be threaded over the bow roller, around a roller on the trailer ladder that replaces the current winch, and back to the bow D-Ring. Hauling in the rode draws the boat up onto the trailer, and this can be done from anywhere nearby rather than directly on the trailer tongue. Once the boat is in position, engage the rope clutch to hold it in place and release the pressure on the windlass. Reverse the operation to release the boat. By my calculations, a 2000 lb. windlass would be required since there's not enough distance to get a block and tackle involved.

3) As a mast-raising winch. The gin-pole is attached to the mast foot as it currently is. It has no winch. It's fixed line is cleated off to the bow as per current. The mast bail you'd normally attach the gin-pole line to has a hanging block shackled to it. The top of the gin-pole has a large eye-bolt attached. Thread the rode through the anchor roller from the bottom, through the eye-bolt on the gin pole, through the mast raising bail, and back to top of the gin pole where you shackle it.

When you haul the rode in, it lifts the mast with a 2:1 purchase thanks to the pass through the bail and back to the gin-pole. The mast raising pole stays stationary because it's tied to the mast cleat as it works now. With the remote, you can pull the mast forward until pinning the forestay is simple. The gin pole is now just a pole and much easier to store below decks or on-deck.

Thoughts?

Matt

sound brilliant, but have you made this already? where are he photos!!!!!

Bonus points if you can also turn it in to a Genoa winch.

mastreb wrote:Hey guys,

It's time for me to consider what to do about my trailer winch. I don't like the strap winch at all--my strap has multiple wear holes in it from folding and it's only two years old. I don't like the winch operation.

I also don't much like the brake winch on the mast-raising gin pole.

It occurs to me that it would be simple to do the following:

1) Install a 12VDC horizontal windlass (non-free-fall) on the chain locker lid. I would get one with a remote control so it can be operated from anywhere on or near the boat. The chain locker lid would be beefed up by laminating marine plywood to the bottom side, and the hinges and latch would be attached to the plywood as well.

2) between the bow roller and the chain locker lid, install a heavy-duty rope clutch.

2) Install a rope rode through the clutch and chain weave an 8000 lb. shackle to it.

The windlass and anchor rode would now serve these three purposes:

1) As a typical anchor windlass. Shackle the anchor chain to the rode and its ready to go. The rode threads through the rope clutch to share the load with the windlass in rough seas.

2) As the trailer winch. The rode would be threaded over the bow roller, around a roller on the trailer ladder that replaces the current winch, and back to the bow D-Ring. Hauling in the rode draws the boat up onto the trailer, and this can be done from anywhere nearby rather than directly on the trailer tongue. Once the boat is in position, engage the rope clutch to hold it in place and release the pressure on the windlass. Reverse the operation to release the boat. By my calculations, a 2000 lb. windlass would be required since there's not enough distance to get a block and tackle involved.

3) As a mast-raising winch. The gin-pole is attached to the mast foot as it currently is. It has no winch. It's fixed line is cleated off to the bow as per current. The mast bail you'd normally attach the gin-pole line to has a hanging block shackled to it. The top of the gin-pole has a large eye-bolt attached. Thread the rode through the anchor roller from the bottom, through the eye-bolt on the gin pole, through the mast raising bail, and back to top of the gin pole where you shackle it.

When you haul the rode in, it lifts the mast with a 2:1 purchase thanks to the pass through the bail and back to the gin-pole. The mast raising pole stays stationary because it's tied to the mast cleat as it works now. With the remote, you can pull the mast forward until pinning the forestay is simple. The gin pole is now just a pole and much easier to store below decks or on-deck.

Thoughts?

Matt

I'd be interested in this mod especially since I have always thought about it myself. The problem I keep thinking about is the depth of the anchor locker. I believe you need a depth of 12 or 18 inches at least so that the chain / rode can fall properly into the locker and coil itself. I'd be curious if you can come up with a solution...

You may need to cut into the v berth for proper operation....

I would caution you about using it for raising the mast. It's going to have far more linepull than you need, and at 2:1 it's twice as much, and if something hangs up, you'll rip it off before you know it.

I'm not suggesting it's a bad idea, or won't work, but there is a danger in using a strong winch in a way that the weak link is the rigging. With a hand crank, you can feel (sort of) when something is fouled. Just be careful with it.

tkanzler wrote:I would caution you about using it for raising the mast. It's going to have far more linepull than you need, and at 2:1 it's twice as much, and if something hangs up, you'll rip it off before you know it.

I'm not suggesting it's a bad idea, or won't work, but there is a danger in using a strong winch in a way that the weak link is the rigging. With a hand crank, you can feel (sort of) when something is fouled. Just be careful with it.

Thats a big 10-4 I would not use that for raising the mast when some of the rigging catches on something & it does often u can feel it when hand cranking the winch & stop & correct the situation u will not have that opertunity with the windlass u will rip something off the boat & or bend the mast or worse injure urself

J

I completely agree with Tkanzler. Last year while raising the mast with the ginpole I snagged the backstay on the prop. It was amazing how much force was generated before I even felt the resistance on the winch. Luckily I wasn't in one of my stubborn moods and stopped cranking before I did any damage.

tkanzler wrote:I would caution you about using it for raising the mast. It's going to have far more linepull than you need, and at 2:1 it's twice as much, and if something hangs up, you'll rip it off before you know it.

I'm not suggesting it's a bad idea, or won't work, but there is a danger in using a strong winch in a way that the weak link is the rigging. With a hand crank, you can feel (sort of) when something is fouled. Just be careful with it.

This is great advice. I personally have never had a "snag" issue when raising the mast, but I can totally see how a motorized winch would be an issue if there is a snag. I have over-winched an incorrectly replaced shackle on the raising hound and wound up dropping the mast, which was bad.

I'm going to proceed--with caution.

Thanks guys!

trdprotruck wrote:

You may need to cut into the v berth for proper operation....

Or make a raised chain locker hatch. Thinking...

Guess I'll have to be the sole (so far) nay vote. The three items are mission critical. Each is designed to work well, and does. Attempting to combine them may result in something that does none of the operations well.
in order to yank the boat onto a trailer that winch will have to be orders of magnitude stronger then mine. See mine on YouTube. Just mounting the winch on a beefed up anchor locker lid won't do it unless you make it out of steel plate.
winching the mast up seems to require attention to keep it going straight and not leaning to one side. Its easy to do with the winch right there and not fumble with another item like the remote, where you would also have to look back at the winch on the deck or even attend to it if the line wasn't feeding right.
there's no space for a chain locker unless you interfere with the vee berth. I have to arrange the chain as it comes onboard. Not a big deal since I'm there already but its not a good setup for completely hands free.
that said, I will watch this project closely if you go forward.
Ix

Ixneigh wrote:there's no space for a chain locker unless you interfere with the vee berth.

I am thinking on installing Lewmar pro-sport 550 horizontal windlass for anchor retrieval. The chain locker is absolutely too shallow for the amount of rod free fall required. I was thinking of beefing up bottom of the locker and cutting the required 3 inch hole into v-berth compartment and making rod storage there. I also don’t think that beefing up the chain locker lid would be sufficient.

Woulg the fact that you are pulling from the top of the deck be an issue as a trailer winch? My bow eye (V222) is quite a bit lower than the deck. It seems like it would pull the boat down into the trailer, and not straight forward. This may not be an issue if you have a point on the trailer that is close to the height of the deck.

dxg4848 wrote:

Ixneigh wrote:there's no space for a chain locker unless you interfere with the vee berth.

I am thinking on installing Lewmar pro-sport 550 horizontal windlass for anchor retrieval. The chain locker is absolutely too shallow for the amount of rod free fall required. I was thinking of beefing up bottom of the locker and cutting the required 3 inch hole into v-berth compartment and making rod storage there. I also don’t think that beefing up the chain locker lid would be sufficient.

I was thinking about that same windlass which is where that diagram is from. I had one out of the box idea for the ... I was thinking we could actually move the windlass near the mast base and have a hawsepipe (pipe for the rode passage) to go directly into the storage underneath the bow dining seat. It's pretty close to the centerboard line pipe, so it wouldn't be too much in the way. The only problem is that it may look funny from the outside

Just some more generic comments:

1) I use a 5:1 'old-style' MRS on my , using ball bearing Harken Midrange blocks with 3" sheaves. A triple at the bottom, and a double with becket at the gin pole. They would cost a small fortune to buy, but I already had them from another boat. More suitable and cost effective (smaller) units are around $60-70 each, like Ronstan series 40, or Harken Big Bullet blocks, for about 1/3 the price. Between being ball bearing, and having 5 parts of line, I can raise the mast with one hand, even when it's just coming out of the roller. I pass the line through the main halyard rope clutch so I don't have to worry about losing the mast if I were to mishandle the line. No winching required.

If I have to leave the cockpit, I cleat the bitter end off, loose, just in case the rope clutch doesn't hold, though I've never seen one slip. I can strap the gin pole to the mast, and for overnight unattended, I pop off the blocks, as they're tempting ($500 worth of blocks at WM).

2) If the anchor and chain is too heavy, an aluminium Fortress is much cheaper than a capstan. All chain rode is heavy no matter what, so the actual anchor may not make much difference (or maybe it does, on the end of a long chain).

3) Replace the strap. Or use a length of rope, if the winch is designed for it. My crappy winch has a crappy length of fat synthetic line with a hook spliced onto the end. It looks to be original, but it still works fine. I use a safety chain to secure the boat whenever I load it, just in case, plus a strap over the stern. If the rope and chain both failed, or the bow eye, the stern strap would keep it from sliding back very far, and I'd see it right away anyway.

I don't want to sound too negative, but an anchor windlass is a lot of money, and I think you could overcome any issues for much less money, and without the inherent risk of a powerful winch working through less than robust components.

I personally want an anchor windlass for the remote anchoring functionality. It's not the weight of the anchor or rode that is my issue, but there are times where I need to be at the helm and pull up the anchor at the same time (Singlehanded). Compound heavy seas, 300+ feet of rode and being on deck at the bow makes a windlass sound like a worthwhile investment for safety's sake.