MacGregorSailors.com

There's a lot of smack talking about MacGregors both positive and negative on the net. I've seen mention on other forums and from at least one other person in real life that "MacGregors can get up on a plane while sailing".

Anyone actually done this? I've not gotten my above 5.5 knots yet, although I'm consistently getting better average speeds and can get into the 4.5 to 5.5 range on demand as long as we're in 7+ knot winds now.

Has anyone on this forum ever been on a Mac that planed under sail? If so, what were the conditions and how was the boat trimmed, ballasted, and where was the board?

I've never done it, and I don't think most of us sail in areas that would sustain this.

For the sake of argument let's define it as at least 30 seconds of hull speed + 25%......just because your GPS flashes 10 knots for 5 seconds doesn't mean you are a Hobie....

There are a few Mac nut cakes around who talk gibberish, frankly.

You have to have everything "just right" - then stand behind the mainsail and everybody blows like crazy (shades of Horton Hears a Who).

mastreb wrote:There's a lot of smack talking about MacGregors both positive and negative on the net. I've seen mention on other forums and from at least one other person in real life that "MacGregors can get up on a plane while sailing".

Anyone actually done this? I've not gotten my above 5.5 knots yet, although I'm consistently getting better average speeds and can get into the 4.5 to 5.5 range on demand as long as we're in 7+ knot winds now.

Has anyone on this forum ever been on a Mac that planed under sail? If so, what were the conditions and how was the boat trimmed, ballasted, and where was the board?

Yes I have planed in my V-25. Newport/Ensenada race. Following sea, lots of wind. Flying spinnaker. Surfed down front of wave crest and pegged knotmeter at 12 kt. Very dangerous. On the edge of rounding up. What a rush. Never happend since. Fair Winds and Full Sails....Old Salt

We were surfing at 7 kts down wind. Both the waves and wind were in our favor with the full main out and daggerboard up in a thunderstorm. I would prefer never to repeat the performance if possible. It was not fun.

consistantly doing 8-10.4 & hitting 14 occasonally mph or knots cannot remember but listen to the vid it'll tell ya 20-25knt winds or more in 12-15ft swells or higher & full sails Q1 stock boat on the St Lawrence PQ was alot of hard work
http://s844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 010072.mp4

Bertrand can tell ya the rest of the story

J
PS Could not tell ya if we were planing or not but we were sure as Hull SURFING !!

I don't think this fits the definition of planing under sail, but it definitely was the most outstanding sail I've ever had. On our crossing of the Yellow Banks from Nassau to the Exumas this past spring, we had around 15 knots of steady wind out of the northeast. Our course was southeast, and we sailed on a reach for 35 nautical miles, with a single reef in the main and a full genoa. Speed was 4.5 knots initially, but soon increased to a steady 6 knots, and sustailed periods of 6.5 knots, and less than 15 degrees of heel. Things were balanced just right, and we felt fully in control. It was incredible.

On Lake Chelan recently, we sailed downlake wing on wing, with preventer and whisker pole deployed. We maintained 6.5 knots for quite a while, and got pushed to over 7 knots for short periods.

I asked about this back when there were the discussions about planing hulls vs. displacement hulls, drag on the hulls, etc. etc. One of the biggest reasons I asked the question is because Mr. McG himself says so in the M video, albeit when using the large spinnaker downwind with the pulpit extension...talks about 13 knots plus...

I suppose the first question to ask is "at what speed does the M hull plane?" (or X hull for that matter)
There is a transitional speed (going from displacement to planing) after which, given the boat's loading and weight distribution, the speed will begin to increase more for the same power input - the increase in speed is greater proportionally than during displacement. (The assumption being that before reaching plane is displacement and thus takes more energy to increase speed, and when planing less energy is required to increase speed)**.

So the question is: What is that speed? (and it will differ by each boat, each loading condition)

**more total energy is being put in while planing, obviously, but less differential (additional) energy is required to increase speed, you get more speed for less extra power.

Below is a hypothetical graph to illustrate. (EDIT: Changed graph - planing portion should be rising, not tapering off.)


Just for fun, you guys who have X's or M's could actually graph this yourselves. You would measure motor RPM and boat speed over a large number of motor RPM points, maybe every 200 RPM or something. Then you'd have to get the RPM/HP curve for your motor, and at each RPM you recorded on the water, record that corresponding HP from the motor graph. Then you draw that HP verses the boat speed, and that graph should look something like the one I posted. From that, you should be able to tell about where your boat's planing speed is, and coincidentally how much power is required to reach plane.

I don't think I've ever truly planed under power. Close maybe, but I think it takes the force of about 90 horses and no ballast to make that happen.

I think I would describe what my does as "Plowing" at WOT. I do it ballast in and with about #1000 of kit, getting up to maybe 14 knots. I'm sure it's technically planing, but it doesn't look like a bayliner, that's for sure.

I do not believe these boats technically plane even under power but are capable of passing the bow wave.

My experience sailing in a variety of wind and sea conditions is what Chinook found: 5 knots is easy even to windward. Doing 6-6.5 knots is a great reach with great wind. 7+ knot peaks means the seas are helping you.

Jim

Chinook wrote:I don't think this fits the definition of planing under sail, but it definitely was the most outstanding sail I've ever had. On our crossing of the Yellow Banks from Nassau to the Exumas this past spring, we had around 15 knots of steady wind out of the northeast. Our course was southeast, and we sailed on a reach for 35 nautical miles, with a single reef in the main and a full genoa. Speed was 4.5 knots initially, but soon increased to a steady 6 knots, and sustailed periods of 6.5 knots, and less than 15 degrees of heel. Things were balanced just right, and we felt fully in control. It was incredible.

On Lake Chelan recently, we sailed downlake wing on wing, with preventer and whisker pole deployed. We maintained 6.5 knots for quite a while, and got pushed to over 7 knots for short periods.

Certainly wasn't planing but hit 20k's kilometers PH on the GPS for a fair time in the Cambridge Gulf where we had an 8m tide emptying through a couple of hundred metres of narrow channel with a 15knot tail/side wind accelerating though the gorge, only had the headsail up and the motor running at 1000-1500 rpm to maintain steerage as there was some serious rocks and currents about and the chartplotter wasn't that accurate.
Have got to 8k's a few times under normal sailing but pretty rare as the admiral gets a bit toey with anything over 15 deg heel.
To get on plane you would almost need to be at least 15kph above static water speed and that would IMHO mean more pressure than the boards could bear for any period.

Oh, not this discussion again! (You should look at the one which occurred a few years ago on this subject)

Seriously though, fabulous wind today in the Tampa area, courtesy of hurricane Irene. We had nice steady wind out of the west at 15-25 all day. I went out on my 26X and with board up on a broad reach, I was occasionally planing. I could see my bow wave come out the back...almost as if my engine was down, but it was tilted up. It would go past the bow wave for a few seconds but couldn't sustain it for too long.

Well it stayed civil this time...

If y ou really want to plane a Mac, bring some wood and a carpenter

I just watched Roger's flick and he claims 18 mph under his cruising chute and explains how the flat stern reduces stuckshion* and skims over the water--he also claims "full standing headroom through out". (not responsible for paraphrasing*) or learning how to sail in one day or getting chips in his rudders after hitting a rock at 20 mph .

Well, seeing is believing--I haven't seen 18 even under power but the lumps on my head contest his claim for a "full standing headroom"

Bob