MacGregorSailors.com

I just wanted to post a quick reply to a Mod page posted about an "easier" way to install the BWY stern rail seats.

While we do use the Toggler blind nuts for a number of applications (always in stainless), and while I'm sure they can be used here, we do not consider them the best solution for the stern seat installation for 3 reasons.

1) They require you to drill a much larger hole in the fiberglass than the 1/4" holes for the standard mounting bolts, which weakens it.

2) They are designed to work in a much thicker panel thickness (typically sheetrock) and the plastic zip tie style installation hardware ends up smashing out sort of strangely some times which can make sealing them water tight more difficult.

3) The metal piece of the toggler has very sharp edges on the ends which cause "hard points" that often create small cracks over time due to the high point loading. The smooth surface of the large washers we provide don't have this problem.

I hope this helps people decide which way to go.

Thanks Todd......
That Toggle bolt idea ? I felt, left a lot to be desired as I read it.. add to that and having worked in an Industry that we use those of every type ALL the time..... The toggle head itself , is the weak point!! Very Weak Point!!! Though we use them Never in life support etc etc etc etc .. Their use is limited ..

bwytodd wrote:I just wanted to post a quick reply to a Mod page posted about an "easier" way to install the BWY stern rail seats.

While we do use the Toggler blind nuts for a number of applications (always in stainless), and while I'm sure they can be used here, we do not consider them the best solution for the stern seat installation for 3 reasons.

1) They require you to drill a much larger hole in the fiberglass than the 1/4" holes for the standard mounting bolts, which weakens it.

2) They are designed to work in a much thicker panel thickness (typically sheetrock) and the plastic zip tie style installation hardware ends up smashing out sort of strangely some times which can make sealing them water tight more difficult.

3) The metal piece of the toggler has very sharp edges on the ends which cause "hard points" that often create small cracks over time due to the high point loading. The smooth surface of the large washers we provide don't have this problem.

I hope this helps people decide which way to go.

Agree. Didn't like the mod when I saw it myself.

I installed ours by the bwy directions to the letter. Installed pefectly.

It's been well over a year since I did this mod, so I thought I'd post an update. The seats remain perfectly secure, no spiderwebbing around the bolts, no creaking, no relative movement, and no moisture penetration. I'm now up to 260 lbs., so my testing becomes even more worst case as time goes by.

Keep in mind that an individual seat is held up by six of these toggle bolts. The total backing area of the togglers is more than double that of washers, so seats are held in place by a lot more fiberglass.

If there's ever an issue with having used these togglers to perform the install, I'll be sure to post an update, but after 90 days of sitting in them over the past 15 months, I'm satisfied that the installation is perfectly sound.

It's perfectly reasonable for the manufacturer to caution against using a method they've not tested or which they believe could cause issues, so as with anything, use your own judgement of risk.

Mastreb: That appears to be a pretty darn good test.. Would you supply a link to the Toggle bolts you actually used?
The ones I have always used had " sharp" square edges. By design those "corners" are meant to "dig" in and hold the Toggle Head so as NOT to allow it to spin..

These are the parts I wound up using:

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/products/ ... glers.html

You can get them in galvanized at Lowes for 1/10th the price, but these are marine grade stainless. For the stern-rail seats, I maneuvered the backing toggles into a triangle formation. The ends are rounded, and they bite down pretty well. I used the 1/4" 20s if I remember correctly to match the bolts supplied by BWY. They require only a 5/8ths hole because of the way they slip in if I remember correctly, and there's a plastic ring remaining that sort of seals the hole, but of course you need to finish with 3M 4200 to ensure a seal.

They worked so well they've become my go-to for bolting anything down on the boat rather than opening up another hole in the liner.

Mastreb: ????? YOU Used Teleflex ball joint ends????? Hahahaaha that's where that link takes me..

I tend to fabricate my own oversized aluminum backplate for everything I mount through the hull... typically 1/8" or 3/16" thick and 2" or 3" wide. Everything else is mounted to the tee per instructions. The aluminum backing plates have the edges/corners rounded off and usually a layer of silicone between the plate and the hull.

This was the dry fit of the first one, I didn't like this one because it wasn't as wide.. I replaced it with a wider backplate before gooping it in.



Access ports cut in both sides...



...Doug (2012 Vice Commodore & Fleet Captain, MTLSA)
Galactica
http://starsloop.blogspot.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/StarSloop?feature=mhee

Here is a video link to instalation:

http://www.amazon.com/TOGGLER-SNAPTOGGL ... m_sbs_sg_4


Flyboy26m

Just thought I'd post an update: It's been three years now, and the toggler nut installation is still solid as a rock with no issues.