The boat on its side in the Solent

[Clemo]

By now most of you must have seen the boat on its side being rescued.

http://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/news/ferry-i ... 27482.aspx

I have two questions.

Firstly, the big valve on the transom where we fill our balast tank looks like it might be below water level.
If he opened it, and the air vent, would the balast tank then fill, even though she is on her side.
So could you fill the balast and right the boat?

& secondly, if he opened the valves, could he assist by standing on the centre board?
Would the centre board be strong enough?

Just got a third question.

If the boyancy is keeping her afloat, is the fixed balast stopping her from going right over? Not going to try it, but she might be very near balanced, maybe some weight on the centre board would stand her up again.

Obviously the lesson for us is to empty the balast only under very controlled conditions.
In my case, when she is under control and on the trailer, being pulled out.

But would the centre board be strong enough to climb on?
(Yes I sailed dinghys.)


Tks
C ya.

[Currie]

I see no sails in the water, so it's almost a sure thing that his ballast tank was empty, otherwise the boat would at least be trying to right itself.

Once there's a capsize, it's too late to fill the ballast tank unless you've added a ballast pump. IOW - even if the valve is now below the waterline, it will only gravity fill to a small degree - there's no way to get the water up into the ballast tank where it needs to be to right the boat.

That being said: I do think that you might stand a chance, as you say, to use the center board with your body weight (as many do with smaller capsized boats). It might actually help at that point to have the valve open because with your weight on it, the ballast will fill to a point, then stay put for a short time, allowing you to shift around and redistribute your weight to the side of the boat.

All hypothetical - I leave my ballast in.

Cheers,
~Bob

[bastonjock]

I will go on the asumption that the guy did not have any ballast in,it may be possible in an unballasted boat that if your ballast valve is underwater then you could partially fill the tank.I dont know if that would be enough along with standing on the centerboard and gently tugging the jib halyard to correct the boat.

im not about to try it either

[SkiDeep2001]

Just curious, with the mast and hardware weight, why didn't she roll completely over Would that be the expected result when you get knocked down (laying on side) and under what conditions could the Mac roll to belly up position Rob

[Wind Chime]

The images in the article are extremely unsettling to me.

We have been in some fairly heavy coastal weather and sea conditions, and although I describe our 2000-X as a tender and lively boat, she has always been very stable. We always use full ballast when under sail but rarely use ballast when under power, unless the chop gets up, we are transiting through current and over-falls, or in foul weather.

When sailing, I have no problem when a gust of wind blows, and we go over to about 35-40 degrees of heel because the boat feels very stiff with the ballast and rights us up quite fast. But, we have gone though some pretty large power-boat and ferry wakes when under power (with no ballast) and sometimes rolled hard to about 30 degrees or so. I have always felt confident that we would not be knocked over, let alone just lay there on our side like in the photos. Now after seeing those photos .. maybe not as confident.

Questions for the Engineers.

Assuming; Under Power, No Ballast, Average Load, 2 Persons in the Cockpit.
1. What is the degree of heel before the boat will go over?
2. If she does go over, will she really just lay there on her side like a dead goat?

Darry

[Scott]

unless the chop gets up, we are transiting through current and over-falls, or in foul weather.

Like, "water falls"??????

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

The boat in the picture is a X, and if it is a early one like mine (and it looks to be by the extra fill indent aft of the centerboard slot ) the ballast valve is on the port side and would be high and dry. It is floating so high I doubt the interior has been flooded. With the interior full a half over, but much lower position would be more expected. That was the state of the one that capsized years ago in the fourth of July accident.

I expect the tank was empty and if he had made more of an attempt to treat the boat like the big dinghy it is, he could have righted it using the centerboard. He could even have started this using the rudders. We've got thousands of miles of empty tank motoring under our X's keel and it's never shown any tendency to not recover from a roll.

One other idea could be a half full tank indecent, that could explain what looks like a stable position.

The way it is so perfectly balanced is surprising and must mean by chance the gear stowed below exactly offset the weight above deck, plus clearly his weight. I would think even climbing to the high side rail would be enough to start it back on it's feet. Half over like this should not be a stable position. I'd think standing where he is that it would go full turtle.

I don't know why he would choose to leave the boat with help right there and the boat clearly not sinking. Once the small RVYC launch arrived, a line to the mast led over the hull to the launch should have been easily able to pull it back upright. I wouldn't give up so easily

[kmclemore]

The images in the article are extremely unsettling to me.

Well, in some ways I suppose it is upsettling in terms of seeing a Mac in that condition, but IMHO it's more *settling* that the owner was clearly uninjured and could have stayed afloat and safe for many hours if need be... unlike with other yachts... most others by that time would be well and truly on the bottom, with her master fighting in the cold waters for his life, and with him being far more difficult to locate and rescue.

Almost 75% of that Mac is floating above the water... that's pretty dang good. Indeed, it looks to be floating above the companionway, and in which case it might have been easily righted, pumped out, and on it's way. Or in more rough conditions, I wonder if he could have closed the hatches and taken shelter inside? Clearly there's still a lot of air in the cabin.

[Highlander]

I'm not so sure this is an Mac26x it has very sharp hard chines like the Mac19 without the mac19 flared hard chine ! & I think the drive looks more like a sail drive ! or I am missing something where does it say that the boat is an MacX
Also check out the bow rail pulpit it is round at the front like a lot of standard sail boats it is not pointed like the mac X & M
The slot in the hull is very far forward or this maybe just the angle the pic was taken it could be an keel boat that lost its weighted keel ! or perhaps a retactable steel keel
J

[Wind Chime]

unless the chop gets up, we are transiting through current and over-falls, or in foul weather.

Like, "water falls"??????

Hey Scott,

Here in the Pacific Northwest, some of the tidal-current over-falls in a few of the narrow long channels can build pretty fast on both sides of slack, and sometimes they can look and feel like water-falls .

Or as my wife puts it ... "This is not relaxing, if I wanted this experience I would go white water river rafting"

[kmclemore]

I'm not so sure this is an Mac26x...

Well, here's some enlarged pics... looks like a 26 to me... check out the rudders - no 'standard sailboats' have those... and appears to have a Honda motor on the back, with the wider 26X transom entry... the bow pulpit looks consistent too. It's not a "D" or "M" because it has a long swing-centerboard trunk.



Click this one to enlarge it:

[c130king]

Does anyone have the link for the UK Macgregor Owners? I have seen the site before but I did not bookmark and now I can't find it. They may have info or Mac Magic might be a member.

Jim

[kmclemore]

Does anyone have the link for the UK Macgregor Owners?

http://community.macgregorowners.org.uk/

You need to be a member to dig around.

[c130king]

I had just found it but Kevin beat me to the keyboard. Rick Jones is a big poster there and I have sailed with him before. He is a member here (RickJ) but I haven't seen him online recently.

I will email him.

Jim

[Highlander]

Yes Kevin

I see the resemblance more in the bigger pics you posted , would like to know how he managed to do that ! , I would never leave a boat "abandon" when it is clearly retrievable in its present state !

J