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It all started this Labor day weekend when I was praticing raising the mast and sails on my two week old

I bought the 2004 26M used from a guy in Lake Tahoe who was selling due to a family emergency and he only used the boat twice. This is my first boat and since I didn't get the "Demo Sail" from a dealer, I have been learning from reading the Mac owners manuel and all other literature I can get my hands on, including this website.

So my wife was helping me get the mast up, and all was going fine. I have the roller furler and that made the mast raising just a bit more difficult because I had to pull down on the roller furler while my wife put the pin into the forstay. I do have the mast raising system and had it tight and also had the jib halyard (that isn't used when you have the roller furler) tight and fixed to bow. This was a struggle and my wife was looking at me with the "what the hull are we doing here?" We did eventualy get the pin in and had a chance for a breather. I used the oportunity to take down the mast raising system and remove the jib halyard and we both stood back and enjoyed the view of the mast towering above my (and my neighbors) houses.

I then unrolled the genoa and it looked GREAT! But my problem all started when I tried to roll the roller furler in. I pulled on the line (yes it was the right line) and it just wouldn't "roll" up. Upon further inspection, I realized that I had the roller furler attached 180 degrees wrong. In other words the opening was pointing forward making the roll up all but impossible. I realized that I had to remove the pin and reposition the roller furler with the opening pointing aft.

So I called over the Boss and told her that we needed to go through the blasted "pin" removal and insertion again and after she looked at me like I was a Bozo, I then set in motion a chain of events that would prove her Bozo suspiction correct.

I pulled down on the roller forler, to get her the needed slack to remove the pin. She was complaining that it was much harder to remove the pin, than it was to put it in. (looking back it was the pressure of holding up the mast that was making it difficult to remove the pin, almost like it was trying to stop me)

Pop! The pin came out and at once I realized I was in big trouble. The mast immediately started to lean back towards the stern of the boat and holding onto the now loosened roller was growing all but impossible. From the moaning sounds I was making and the fact that I had fallen to my knees in an attempt to hold onto the roller my wife screamed, "what can I do to help?" It was all I could do to mutter out....get out of the way...

With that, the mast made what I would call a "controled crash landing" onto the gable of my roof! Thank goodness the roof was there because it kept the mast up at about a 30 deg angle and probabally kept me from doing serious (and costly) damage to the boat.

Now you may ask why I would share this horror story and bring the collective scorn and laughfter upon myself. Well first, anything I could get here on this site, will pale in comparison to what I have already received from my wife and after surviving that, anything else would just be childs play. But the real reason is this whole story leads me to ask one important question.

With the importance of that roller furler pin that connects to the forstay (just to the port of the anchor roller) has anyone had a problem of the cheezy pin failing and the mast crashing down while underway? Has anyone upgraded the standard roller furler forstay connection or even installed a second forstay line? The problem is that now that the boss has seen the mast fall, she looks at what she calls the "inadequate pin" and doesn't believe I know what I am doing (she could have a point) when I tell her not to worry?

I would appreciate any help, advice, assistance.

Regards

Rich Boren

or as I am now called by some "wreking ball Boren"

It takes a real man to share his mistakes so others might learn from them.

The first thing I did when we got home and saw the stock pin was to call Blue Water Yachts and order two of the big head forestay pins. This will make it much easier to pin. But I screwed up there because I wanted to order a coupla dozen of their Cinch-It bungees and forgot.

At any rate, the forestay and its fittings appear more than adequate to me. Most of the wind loads will be pushing (mainsail) or pulling (jib) the mast in some forward direction, or to one side.

The PO of our boat apparently also dropped the mast with the hatch open and did some minor damage to it and one of the spreaders. You were fortunate to have your house roof to catch the mast.

You'll probably look back on this and laugh one day.

--
Moe

Moe,
I just looked at your website and it looks like you got a clean X. I do have one question: I notice that the roller furler is not fixed to your mast for transport, but placed on the deck and slightly bent around to fit nicely. My question is does that risk damaging the roller furler? I don't know for sure, but seem to remember reading something on this site, or in the Mac directions that bending the roller furler during transport wasn't recommended.

If any one else know, please jump in because I would like to not have to bunjy it to the mast and slightly bend it on the deck for transport to get the weitht off the mast for transport.

Thanks

Rich

The way it's shown on our website is not the proper way to carry it, but that's the way it made it to the broker and we were in a hurry to get the boat home. There was some curve to it when we got home and got it off.

The furler is now bungied to the mast, and supported by a large wood closet rod forward of the mast. I intend to get some 4" PVC and make a carrier for it.

--
Moe

If you leave the furler bent like that, it will eventually become kinked...not that this makes a big difference. I find that it is easiest to just lash the whole thing tightly to top of the mast and then attach an extension of PVC pipe to hold/support the bottom of the furler (part that sticks out) straight.

The best way to raise the mast is with the mast raising system, but if you don't have that luxury (and it is well worth the 100 bucks it costs), then you should always tie the jib halyard to the bow (either the cleat or pulpit) when you are pinning the mast. Before I located the gin pole of my mast raising system, I raised the mast with my wife and she would pull on the halyard while I pulled on the forestay/furler.

Good luck!

RichandLori wrote:Moe,
I just looked at your website and it looks like you got a clean X. I do have one question: I notice that the roller furler is not fixed to your mast for transport, but placed on the deck and slightly bent around to fit nicely. My question is does that risk damaging the roller furler? I don't know for sure, but seem to remember reading something on this site, or in the Mac directions that bending the roller furler during transport wasn't recommended.

If any one else know, please jump in because I would like to not have to bunjy it to the mast and slightly bend it on the deck for transport to get the weitht off the mast for transport.

Thanks

Rich

I am in the process of finishing my roller holder for my M.

What I have now is a 4" PVC pipe that I cut almost in half lengthwise. Get the heavier PVC that is more rigid. I put about 10-12 bungees on it. It always slides to one side. No biggie..but I will be making a support to keep it centered.

If you have a late M (with mast carrier on back like an arch) you NEED a support on the middle of the mast. TRUST ME. Check out my mod page for a quickie (cheap/easy) one. There is one for an X in the recent mod page on this site. Not sure if it can take the lateral load though. I may try someday.

If you do not have the new M mast raiser. Beg, borrow or steal the $100 for it. It is worth its weight in gold.

Paul

Rich,

Two things come to mind from your story. Hopefully you have learned to never remove the forestay pin without the mast raising gear in place and under tension. That was you main mistake, not re-installing the raising gear. Some will claim that once the mast is up there is little backward tension, but you never want to risk it. The other choice would have been to tie and cleat the spare jib halyard to the pulpit to keep the mast up while you released the forestay to spin the drum around. I actually keep my jib halyard attached to the pulpit at all times except when sailing. It serves as a backup incase something were to happen with the forestay. It also keeps it away from the mast so it doesn't slap at anchor or the dock as the boat rolls.

Secondly it sounds like the mast fell to the side as it went back and hit the house. Did you have the baby stays installed? These keep the mast from leaning to the side as it goes up and down. In this case it sounds like it was a good thing they weren't there, but you normally would always want them in place when the mast is being raised or lowered. I never remove mine, they are always attached, they are just one more thing to mess with and waste time during the raising and lowering process. Many people just leave them in place. They actually make a handy extra handhold when working up at the mast.

I will second the recommendation to get the larger forestay pin from Bluewater. It is far easier to hold and has a tapered end which makes it simpler to get into the holes when they are not lined up perfectly. I also have gone to a larger diameter ring ding which is easier to insert. Don't be tempted by a quickpin, you want a real solid core pin and a ring ding for safety sake.

Other than that I have never heard of the forestay pin failing, it is up to the task. The only forestay systems failures I know of are from turnbuckles under the drum that have unscrewed themselves in the furling process. You want to make sure the two cotter pins are intact under the drum so even if the turnbuckle unscrews it can't come all the way out of the turnbuckle body. If it seems like over time it is getting easier to pin the headstay you should lift the drum and check the turnbuckle as it is probably backing it self off. I switched from plain old cotter pins which could rotate inside the body to a larger ring ding that wraps around the body. Not only does this prevent it from coming completely apart, it stops the turnbuckle from being able to rotate inside the drum at all.

Richard, I too am a self-inflicted learner, with a new 26M, and can perhaps share some of my own experiences. I am quite certain now, that sailboats are designed to humiliate and embarrass us beyond endurance. Those marvelous images I once had of fearless passages , ending with quiet evenings swapping hardy tales with my companions are safely couched in moments of near terror, intermissioned with moments of dead calm. That being said, this is how I deal with my furler? First I acquired a rope tightening ratchet from Home Depot (approx. $12.00). This I attached to the Jib Halyard, attached to the mast near the top of the roller furler. I hook this to anything near the anchor roller, and pull it tight, it seems to take a few times, as the roller fuller seems to bend a little each time it is stored, and requires a little time to relax, and straighten out. This is really frustrating when your in line at the ramp, and have to pull your boat forward every 2 minutes or lose your place in line. Anyway, Just in case I bought some extra shackles from West Marine, and boy! they are frighteningly inadequate in appearance, but I figure sailors depend on these gizmos for blue water sailing, right. Ive been using safety pins purchased at Ace hardware, instead of ring-dings. West Marine sells a 1/4' stainless clevis approx. 1-1/2' long that is easier to insert than the original pin. Off- shore Id probably stay with those terrible rings, no doubt designed by the same folks who design the aforementioned sailboats. I leave the jib halyard hooked up .but with less tension, and can even leave the mast-raising pole attached if you lay it on the deck, so it wont catch your genoa when tacking. I still have hope that these trials eventually lead to secret moorings that experienced sailors never openly discuss, but more likely some kind of substance abuse. Happy sailing

RichandLori wrote:The problem is that now that the boss has seen the mast fall, she looks at what she calls the "inadequate pin" and doesn't believe I know what I am doing (she could have a point) when I tell her not to worry?

I didn't like that pin and with the advice of this board bought a pin from Blue Water Yachts. They call them bow pins and sell for $5.00. Very good investment.

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewt ... highlight=

Richard O'Brien wrote:Ive been using safety pins purchased at Ace hardware, instead of ring-dings.

You are asking for trouble. Sails and lines have a history of doing amazing things to fittings. A snagged sail can pull out a safety pin in a heartbeat. So can a line that ends up in the wrong place. Get a 1" diameter ring ding. The ones that spiral in are simple and quick to put on yet are much harder for snag to pull out. The headstay fitting is to critical to mess with anything else.

The Bluewater pin is long like your extended clevis pin and has the advantage of being tapered at the end so it will help the holes self align. It has a large diameter plate at the end which is easier to hold and push on. You can drill a hole through the plate and teather it to the boat so it doesn't go overboard.

I'm surprised to hear you try to setup in line, that would drive me crazy. We just pull off to a quiet side area to get everything ready then join the line. It was great to be like one of the 'normal' boats this labor day when we left the mast at home to go play on the lake. Pull up in line, fenders and docklines out, strap off, in the water she goes.

Rich,
Don't fret it and have your wife call me if she has any questions. I did the same thing with the roller furler my first time. I just untied the roller furler line, spun the roller around and retied it.

My wife still looks at me out of the corner of her eye when we go sailing. You've got a great boat. It just takes time. Make sure you include your wife's opinions in any modifications as well.

Bruce

Rich,

It all sounds too familiar. I went thru the same thing almost exactly a year ago when we first got our "X". About the only difference was the mast did not come crashing down because I was the one on the furler pin and had enough experience watching pins draw themselves out under pressure on farm and dirt moving equipment that I knew I was in trouble fast. Luckily, we had the mast lines extended out past the bow onto shore where the better half and another person were pulling on it.

I could tell they were not pulling hard enough to keep the mast upright and I was losing my grip on the furler and pin was working its way out. "I had already removed the ring ding."

I kinda panicked and yelled to wake them up that they had to pull harder but it was to no avail unit this experienced "female" sailor who happened to be walking by at the time heard me screaming ,took action and helped pull the line tight.

We were not using the mast raising system at the time because the dockmaster felt the mast was light enough not to bother.

And by the way, the reason we were even removing the pin was because the furler was rotated just like yours.

-Don B

I gotta agree with Duane regarding the safety pins. When I was a kid my Dad came up with the great idea of using diaper pins (basically a large safety pin) instead of ring dings on his sailboat. It took several years, but eventually one came undone and the mast came down while sailing. It was a side stay thankfully, but it got stuck in the mud and was a real mess.

My Dad went back to the ring dings, but loosened the stays to make inserting the pins easier. Again, it took several years, but the cumulative effect of the shock loads imposed by sloppy rigging brought the mast down again. No one was hurt, but the boat was not so lucky.

Then there was the time we forgot to put the drain plug in the motor boat...

[quote="Duane Dunn, Allegro"]

You are asking for trouble. Sails and lines have a history of doing amazing things to fittings. A snagged sail can pull out a safety pin in a heartbeat. So can a line that ends up in the wrong place. Get a 1" diameter ring ding.



I'1" ring dings! Ok I ve got to get some of those. The staging queue for the launch ramp on that day displayed a sign 45 minute wait. I figured that I could beat that, but as soon as I got in line they pulled the sign down and said it was maybe 20 minutes. Im sure that I was setup by someone who said here comes a sailboat, Lets mess with him. I think that was the same day I decided to look for safety pins. Glad to hear about the Blue Water pins. Sounds like a good investment. I hope you folks check in after Ivan. Best of luck

Richard: Is that the best you got? That's nothing. Try making that little error on the water in 3 foot swells and and take a chunk out of her arm when it comes down. Then we'll be even and that "what the hull are we doing here look?" turns into the "screw you I'm swimming to shore" look. Fortunately in my case that was the sacraficial ex-girlfriend who's real purpose was to look good in a bikini. The only thing left of her is the blood stain I never got out of the main sail. Ah the memories. All in all it was a great learning experience.

Not that it's a huge help, but if you keep the furler line line cleated, then if you lose do lose it'll keep the mast up. At least for a couple minutes until the drum cuts through the drum. May not sound like much but if your quick enough you can get the boom off and save it which in turn gives the mast a cleaner shot at the soon to be ex.

Trust me, you're stories nothing...try taking out a phone line with the mast or losing the trailer at highway speed and then we'll talk.