26M motor

[baldbaby2000]

We are seriously considering getting a 26M. I'm still trying to decide on a motor. Initially I was thinking a 25 hp 2-cycle would be the way to go; cheaper and lighter than an equivalent 4-cycle. I havn't been able to try any motors so I'm not sure if the 2-cycle is noisier. I assume that the 2-cycle would use more gas too. Any comments would be appreciated.

[mike]

We are seriously considering getting a 26M. I'm still trying to decide on a motor. Initially I was thinking a 25 hp 2-cycle would be the way to go; cheaper and lighter than an equivalent 4-cycle. I havn't been able to try any motors so I'm not sure if the 2-cycle is noisier. I assume that the 2-cycle would use more gas too. Any comments would be appreciated.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can chime in if I am off-base here, but since you are likely not going to hit planing speed with a 25hp motor, assuming planing capability is not important to you, you could probably do just as well with an even smaller motor. I'd think a 15hp would be plenty big enough.

--Mike

[Casey]

My humble opinion:
I bought a 98 model 26x with a 50hp Mercury 2 cycle. I tried the 4 cycle honda as well as the 2 cycle mercury. At altitude the 2 cycle outperformed the 4 cycle and was $2,000. less expensive. Mostly I sail and motor slowly. Because of the smoke and noise, I would choose to spend the addition money and go with a 4 cycle now.

Casey

:macx:98'
Good Winds Karma

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

If you are not interested in the faster motoring capabilities of the M you can use a very small motor. On the X our 6 hp dinghy motor mounted on its trolling bracket will push the boat at 6 knots.

I would think a 9.9 hp or a 15 hp would be the way to go if you just want a kicker motor for your sailboat.

If you want any of the powerboat features of the M, such as the ability to empty ballast under way, cruise at 15 knots, or tow watertoys then you really should go with at least a 50hp. Putting on a 25 hp will not give you the powerboat features and is a waste of money compared to the same sailboat kicker performance you can get with the smaller motors.

With the small motors the extra weight of a 4 stroke would be of no consequence on an M. Many M's are sold with 70 hp 4 stroke motors. The extra 20 - 30 lbs of the smaller 4 stroke will make no difference.

For ease of use I would look for a motor with power tilt and remote controls. It's a pain to have to hang out the back and tilt up the motor.

[Moe]

After having to follow a pontoon boat with a two-stroke yesterday, through long but tight canals, this topic is timely. We're really tired of the secondhand smoke and smell from carbureted two-strokes. Having no personal experience with them, I don't know if the new direct fuel injected (DFI) two-strokes are as bad WRT smell, but in the small motors, Evinrude's E-Tec is the only DFI choice.

Carbureted two-strokes are no longer sold in California and that will probably be the case for model year 2006 nationwide. Expect to see carburted two-strokes increasingly banned from use in environmentally-sensitive waters. This is already the case in Lake Tahoe.

The other thing to consider is what the motor does to the resale of the boat. Many of us these days don't even consider a boat with a two-stroke.

The heavier M should be able to balance the slightly heavier (compared to the lightweight carbureted Honda four-stroke on an X) EFI four-strokes such as the Suzuki and Mercury BigFoot. We have the latter, and love EFI. It improves the fuel mileage and can idle smoothly for hours at a time with no worry of fouling plugs. When cold on launch, it starts instantly and runs perfectly immediately. No choke, no fast idle, no stumbling or stalling at the launch.

If you don't buy a clean motor for yourself and your family, then please buy one for those of us who have to boat around you.

--
Moe

[Jesse Days Pacific Star 2]

For a smoke free, low emission, and highly efficient motor, you can't beat the Nissan TLDI 50 hp direct fuel inject. This motor is rated 'very low emissions' and meets California standards.

My two cents worth.

Jesse

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Yes, in addition to the Evinrude injected two stroke there is the Nissan TLDI, which is actually a Tohatsu TLDI with different stickers on the case.

Also for your info the Mercury motor is actually a Yamaha with new stickers.

Another twin is the Johnson which is actually a Suzuki.

I have a Tohatsu 50 two stroke which has been just bulletproof. I really like their new TLDI technology as well. But, with the prices of gas and oil going where there are, I'd only buy a four stroke. Why have the added cost of the oil. While the TLDI is far better than my carbed two stroke, it is not as quiet as a Suzuki four, of all the 50hp four strokes the Suzuki is the quietest. The TLDI also can't quite match the Suzuki mileage either. Throw in the oil cost and it is more expensive to operate.

The only real drawbacks of the four strokes are their extra purchase and maint costs. I'd learn how to change the oil myself real quick.

[KRV]

I may get smacked for this but here goes. I have an M and love it for what it is (Powersailor). However with this said, If you are ONLY interested in the sailing capabilities, why the heck are you getting an M? The M is considered a below to average sailboat. But you couple both capabilities(power+sail) and it becomes an AWESOME powersailor.

If you are going to spend the money on a NEW M, why not get the motor that it needs to perform what it was designed to do? It will also be easier to sell in my opinion if it has at least a 50hp engine.

[Jesse Days Pacific Star 2]

KRV is correct. Get a good sized motor capable of planning the boat. Don't limit yourself or the boat. And yes the re-sale would most likely be better with a larger engine.

J.

[mike]

I may get smacked for this but here goes. I have an M and love it for what it is (Powersailor). However with this said, If you are ONLY interested in the sailing capabilities, why the heck are you getting an M? The M is considered a below to average sailboat. But you couple both capabilities(power+sail) and it becomes an AWESOME powersailor.

But, if I'm not mistaken, there aren't a whole lot of other options for trailerable (well, EASILY trailerable) cruising sailboats. Though I'm sure there are more, Hunter is all that comes to mind. The 26ft. Hunter water ballast model is about $25,500. Adding wheel steering (if that's important to you) is $2,300, and a trailer w/brakes is a whopping $4,800. Now, of course, the trailer is probably better than MacGregor's trailer (how could it not be!), and the boat reportedly sails better, but for some people, the $10,000+ price difference could be an issue.

--Mike

[Rolf]

Duane,
I have the TLDI 50, and the mileage is right up there with the 4-strokes. At WOT I use exactly 6 gallons to go the 23 miles to Avalon, Catalina. Oil usage is negligible, one $14 gallon of oil lasted me well over 500 miles in trips. The low burn rate is phenomenal. The thinner transom- friendly profile, slightly lighter weight, lower cost, and time tested but updated powertrain make this a hard motor to beat. Little noise, low pressure DI means less wear and tear. Also less maintenance--no oil changes(besides gear oil and spark plugs every 300 hours). Sorry to get on a soapbox, but I must defend this simple is better design!
Rolf

[Frank C]

. . . The 26ft. Hunter water ballast model is about $25,500. Adding wheel steering (if that's important to you) is $2,300, and a trailer w/brakes is a whopping $4,800. ...

Ask a question here, you're gonna get some opinions! I agree with KRV, Mike & Jesse. If sailing is very important to you, and the converse for motoring, many other boats offer better potential than a Macgregor. The Hunter 26 is an example. It's arguably a better sailboat with a much nicer interior. And, it sells for about the same as a Mac plus a big motor. The most recent Sail magazine has a thumbnail write-up on dozens of trailerables, nearly all of which would sail better than our Macs. But none of them can motorsail as well as the Mac w/ 50hp.

The one other niche that's well-filled by the Mac, sans motor ... it's probably the least expensive sailboat with a full, stand-up cabin that can comfortably accomodate a family of four. So if that's your niche, then I could understand a Mac 26 with a 10hp motor. Agreeing w/ Duane ... it seems to me that a 10hp or a 50+ hp are the only logical choices. In either case, I'd recommend a 4-stroke.

The Mac hulls can easily float motor weights up to 350 lbs. Numerous owners have Suzuki 70s @ 335#, and several are carrying 50s at 250 pounds, PLUS a stern-mounted kicker at 80# or so. Notwithstanding the performance of the new TLDIs, I think that 4-stroke EFI is pretty clearly the choice of the future. You trade slightly more weight for better fuel economy, quieter operation, and (arguably) less maintenance.

[Jesse Days Pacific Star 2]

I've got to agree with Rolf on this. The Nissan/Tohatsu are just great engines. The only thing I see is the 4 strokes are probably a little quieter, however the Nissan is extremely quiet for a two stroke. Pulling into Port Ludlow's fuel dock, I surprised the dock attendant when she hadn't heard us approach or dock up. That's quiet!!

My two cents worth.

Jesse

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Rolf, Jesse,

Without a doubt the TLDI is a great product and is better than the carbed two stroke I have.

Yes it's mileage is in the same range as the 50 hp 4 strokes, but they are still a bit better, particularly the Suzuki. Even though it's not much, $14 for a gallon of oil is a addition fuel cost. (Although you can offset this against the cost of oil changes if you pay the dealer to do them.) And I'm sorry, but as quiet as the TLDI is it is not as quiet as the Suzuki 4 stroke. There is quite a difference still. It's great compared to the noise of my 2 stroke, but it can't match the 4 strokes in low noise level. This is particularly true at idle speeds such as approaching a fuel dock. The only noise you hear from the Suzuki at low rpms is the water spraying out of the pee hole. Everytime I'm on board a boat with one I still have to look for the water just to make sure it has started when I turn the key.

The Suzuki 70 is the quietest motor of that size I have ever (not) heard.

I also agree, why an M if you don't want the big motor? While I'm not a Hunter fan, it will out sail the M. The Catalina 250 is also another choice. Both are better pure water ballasted trailerable sailboats. Neither can match the capabilities or versatility of an M as a powerboat with a 50 or 70 hp motor. If your a sail only person, the only reason I can see to go with an M is with a small motor it will get you on the water for less than the other two, just don't expect to win any head to head races with them.

[Moe]

Also for your info the Mercury motor is actually a Yamaha with new stickers.

Actually, I believe you have that backwards, Duane. The 40-60HP Mercury four-strokes are American made. The Yamaha 60 HT powerhead uses a carbureted Mercury 60 powerhead, which offers EFI in the American made 40-50-60 HP BigFoots.

Until announced just recently, Mercury has not sold Yamaha EFI for that motor. Nor has Yamaha sold Mercury EFI on the 75 and 90HP Japanese powerheads, like they do on the 115 and 225 four-strokes. Now they're going to let each other sell EFI versions.

The Yamaha 50 HT is a Japanese manufactured joint-venture powerhead, but it is smaller displacement than the Mercury 40-60 BigFoots. [on edit] I just noticed Yamaha is now listing the Merc EFI 995cc powerhead for both their 50 and 60 HP "small foot" models.

The Yamaha and Mercury ignition systems are also different. An American made Mercury will be "Smart Gauge" compatible.

All this being said, there's talk of Mercury moving production of 60HP and lower motors to China.

--
Moe