MacGregorSailors.com

I understand that some dealers give out the package; so there must be some MacGregor sailors out there that have been using 70 hp on their Mac 26M.
Please share your experience with us and tell us if you are happy or not with the extra horsepower - consequences, speed, weight, fuel consumption.
I am about to oder a new Suzuki for my new 26M and I am trying to make up my mind if it should be 50hp or a 70 hp.
Any input will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I have an M w/70HP Suzuky.
It's a great engine. Quiet, efficient, But heavy! The extra weight makes for a very hard steering.
If I had to do it again...it would be a fifty.

Steve
My-la-la-mar

I expect you get an extra 4-5 mph out of a 70 versus a 50 so it really comes down to how fast you want to go. I get about 16 knots (18.5 mph, 30 kph) out of my 50 on a 26X. The smaller engines are likely more fuel efficient at slower speeds and perhaps at top speed too. At cruising speeds, fuel efficiency is probably pretty similar...this topic has been debated pretty heavily in the past. With a bigger engine, you will also have more trouble getting through the transom entrance.

Another thing to consider is whether you have enough calm water to go really fast very often. The Mac powersailor is not a good boat to do high speed pounding through choppy waves. Greece tends to be a very windy place in the summer, this may make it unlikely that you can go fast very often. For me, I mostly boat in a protected channel, that leads to a protected bay, that leads to the Gulf of Mexico (35 miles away) which isn't so relatively wavy anyway. The point is that I have quite a bit of "go fast" territory around me. If/when I get a new motor for my 26X, it would likely be bigger than a 50. Probably at least a 90 but it would depend on what the skinniest lightest big engine I could find at the time was.

Thank you Steve - that is good to know. Hadn't thought about steering getting 'hard'.

Dimitri, yes you are generally right about windy seas in Greece, but it also depends on where you sail. The Saronic Gulf which is the sea just south of Athens is protected from the strong northerly winds, the 'meltemi' and light winds prevail in this area.

If I were to go for a 70hp it would not only be for extra speed in calm water; the extra power in high seas an strong winds is always useful and adds safety.

How does the Mac handle with 50hp in high seas and a strong current? Is the power sufficient?
Steve, do you have enough space in the transom to pass through with the Suzuki 70hp?

The question is a lot more complicated than just top speed, IMO.

Eng . . . HP .. @.RPMs ... Size . . . Wt . . . Gear . . . Prop . . . Alt
3 cyl .... 50.... 6,500 .... 815 cc ... 242 ..... 2.27 .... 12" ..... 18 amps
4 cyl .... 70.... 5,800 .. 1300 cc ... 335 ..... 2.42 .... 14" ..... 25 amps

The Suzuki 50 is a fine, quiet, durable outboard, working at its full capacity to generate its power. The Suzuki 70 block @> than 50% larger, also quiet and durable, is not wrung-so-tightly to extract its power. The two motors will deliver similar economy, but the 70, IMO, is more appropriate for a Mac's weight and wetted surface. The larger prop will provide more control at slow speed, more power in heavy conditions, and also permits a quieter mid-speed cruise.

My Suzuki 60 (same as 70) delivers an easy 14-15 mph at 3800 rpms, and it has no steering difficulty at all. (I'd guess the other one has an installation problem - could be a simple matter of adjusting the steering linkage). However, the 70 is physically larger by a good margin, so the transom walk-thru would be a problem for the 26M. Either way, the Suzuki EFI motors are terrific.

One of the guys that works for BWY recently traded in his X for an M. He got a white hull with the 50 hp motor in part to be able to demo to cusomers the differences between the white hull 50 and the blue hull 70. When I asked him what he would do differently on the boat he told me he would install the 70. Never any discussion of hard steering although BWY has their own linkage system for the steering.

There's been some discussion about the Tohatsu/Nissan 90-TLDI on another Mac post.
Although it's an oil injected 2-stroke (not a 4-stroke), the technology on two strokes has greatly advanced.
That is...smooth idle & low speed performance, fuel & emission efficiency like a 4-stroke.
Yet lighter weight (314#), higher end torque, and overall top speed vs an equivalent 4-stroke.
Something to discuss in another thread.
http://www.nissanmarine.com/products/90_tldi.html
http://www.tohatsu.com/outboards/90tldi.html

Thank you Frank. As you say, there is a lot more involved than just top speed. And this, precisely, is my concern in trying to choose the most appropriate engine size for the
Another consideration is that the Suzuki 50 with Double overhead cams and four valves per cylinder is a far more complicated engine than the simple Suzuki 70 that has only one overhead cam and two valves per cylinder. I would rate the 70 as more 'reliable' (because of the fewer moving parts) with less need for frequent maintenance and tuning.
I agree, Frank, with all the points you raise and I am actually surprised that you got the Suzuki 60 instead of the 70, when they are basically the same engine. Can you tell us why you chose the Suzuki 60?

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Thank you Tom. Incidentaly, since I am not a local, can you tell me what 'BWY' stands for? I guess it may be a dealer. Do they have a site I can go into and brouse?

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Thanks Bobby. Now, YOU are really stiring my mind (smile)
Just when I thought I had made up my mind that it is going to be a 4-stroke.
I am hesitant with the 2-strokes because decibel levels are of priority for me (versus performance) and I cannot imagine a 2-stroke engine being quieter than a 4-stroke.
Can anyone comment on engine 'noise'?

I would sure take a good look at the high tech 2 stroke Tohatsu if I was getting another motor. Light weight, reliable, narrow (to help access to the ladder), good mileage and emmisions, no oil changes, and superb reliability of a Tohatsu, no concerns about losing lubrication when motor sailing at high heel angles.

If the only downside is noise I would consider that a fair trade. Everything has some trade-offs right?

Regarding reserve power for rough weather, I don't think more than 50 hp will gain you anything. Rough weather calls for displacement speed or less (like 5-6 knots) with ballast in and rudders down. I have never come remotely close to using all 50 hp in those conditions motoring into pretty strong wind. (maybe around 20 hp to move well against 30 knot wind). Any more speed just gets you drenched from spray. (might be different with a dodger).

One solution to the steering hard problem could be to rig your engine off the rudders.

On my 2002 X you just move the bar turning the engine off the pivot and onto the bolt on the steering bracket ( 1 minute job) to do this.

I cant say if the M is the same.

sps

I have the 70 hp on my M. It is incredibly quite at low speeds. My M will do 21 knots with more than average gear on board. We also have 2 growing kids. In my opinion the 70 is the best way to go for us. If you plan on doing mostly sailing then you may want to go with the 50hp. Anything lower than that and you wont be able to take full advantage of the M's capabilities.

Concerning spray: I have done some testing (alone without the kids) to figure out how to eliminate or lower the amount of spray. My conclusion to this problem is an empty ballast. The empty ballast keeps me dry and remarkably stable in choppy situations (be careful and know your limits). If its too bad out there 17+ winds, I stay home. By emptying the ballast I ride on top of the waves rather than below the waves. All you M owners who dont want to get wet try the empty ballast approach. I know that its not self righting but either is a Bayliner. You just have to take this into mind when you go out and be responsible.

The M with an empty ballast does not slam down on waves like a power boat (you would think it would). It rides very sturdy and not once have I felt threatened by a tip over. With the Ballast full the slightest cross wind will cause you to get soaked.

P.S. BWY stands for Blue Water Yachts they do have a website look it up on Yahoo.

Octaman,
Your response indicates your degree of attention to the decision, which is a good sign you'll be pleased whatever your choice. The reason is ... close study means you're less likely to be surprised.

Yes, the Suzi 50 has a lot more technology in it's architecture, but both motors have the same EFI. The 50's fancy valve train has been in the market since model year '98, and used pretty widely on Macs, without any reports of complication here. The 70 came out one year earlier, also with no frustrations that I've seen - those are pretty good records. However, a couple of owners reported a problem with temperature sensors (both 50 and 70 were affected) that have failed prematurely. Since this affects the response by EFI, you end up with a complex diagnostic problem - dealer accessibility within your area is advised. I think that was likely a supplier defect that's been cured for newer motors.

The TLDI motors have had good owner feedback too, though I think they've been out for fewer years. But the same would apply regarding a dealer. Somewhere within a one day drive will make a "good insurance policy". I prefer the 4-stroke, but then my guiding criteria was comfortable, quiet cruise. The Suzuki are reported to be the quietest outboards in the market.

Finally, you're correct that my DF60 is nearly identical to the DF70, so why pick the 60? As I studied them, the 60 had a max rpm of 5,300, and the 70 had a max of 5,800. Since I was mainly interested in mid-range performance, and since the 70 was $700 more in price, I just took the smaller rating. I figured I could always modify it to run to the higher rating if it was really necessary . . . I'd probably just get the 70 next time.

Best wishes in your search!

. . . no concerns about losing lubrication when motor sailing at high heel angles.

This is certainly an important issue that had not crossed my mind.
Question is, how many Mac Owners have experience such problem with 4-stroke engines. This could be my next posting.
Thanks, but I still go for low noise levels.
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I cant say if the M is the same.

Damn good idea - I am sure there is a way to apply to the M. Will be researching. Thanks.
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70 HP Suzuki is outstanding!

Your posting KRV was a pleasure to read.
Probably because it's what I wanted to hear! (smile)

I'd probably just get the 70 next time.

Thanks Frank C. You are very technical and I like that. Your help is invaluable. It seems like things are pointing to the 70hp!
Oh well, guess it'll be worth the extra money!

Seriously its my true feelings. I did forget to tell you that the only negative I find with the motor, besides the weight, is the size. It is tough to navigate around it when entering the boat from the stern. It also tends to hit the captain seat when tilted up all the way. Other than that it is the best outboard motor I have ever owned (Tohatsu, Mercury. Force).

When my wife and I took our first ride on our dealers demo, she asked me if the motor was on. I stated "no she hasn't started it yet". My wife then asked me why there was a water stream spitting out from the motor. I was sold from then on. Good Luck!

Did you get my message KRV?
I'm not sure how it works; whether you have to go and look for it or if it gets sent to your e-mail auromatically.

I shall look forward to hearing from you.
Thanks again KRV!