Capsized My 26X
-
bob lee
- Chief Steward
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:53 am
- Location: calgary 22ft 2006 catalina sport "wanderer"
during our CYA course, a huge amount of time was spent on MOB drills, using a floating flag, we did them in all conditions, and never knew when the instructor was going to toss it over and call MOB. it was worth every dime for that course.
Both my wife and i are certified, so when we took another couple out this summer for a week, we knew that should 1 of us go over, the other was there to take over. we also spent some time talking through the plan should there be a MOB situation.
hope it never happens, did lose a steak over the side, which was a MAJOR issue
Both my wife and i are certified, so when we took another couple out this summer for a week, we knew that should 1 of us go over, the other was there to take over. we also spent some time talking through the plan should there be a MOB situation.
hope it never happens, did lose a steak over the side, which was a MAJOR issue
- Catigale
- Site Admin
- Posts: 10421
- Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:59 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Admiral .............Catigale 2002X.......Lots of Harpoon Hobie 16 Skiffs....Island 17
- Contact:
In light air, dont forget that a unique attribute of the Mac is that the engine can over power the sails.
Its is completely non-kosher to ASA, and to keel boaters, but you can effect a successful POB using motor without messing with sails at all....but you dont want to try this out under duress...practice practice practice..
As soon as the river warms up a bit a POB drill is mandatory for us each season...make it a fun swim time for the kids and they will enjoy it.
By the way, I announce it as a Securite on the VHF when I do it, and report my approximate position in the river, and the expected duration of my POB drills. I do this since you cant see if there are freighters coming down the river and they are fast!!
Its is completely non-kosher to ASA, and to keel boaters, but you can effect a successful POB using motor without messing with sails at all....but you dont want to try this out under duress...practice practice practice..
As soon as the river warms up a bit a POB drill is mandatory for us each season...make it a fun swim time for the kids and they will enjoy it.
By the way, I announce it as a Securite on the VHF when I do it, and report my approximate position in the river, and the expected duration of my POB drills. I do this since you cant see if there are freighters coming down the river and they are fast!!
"By the way, I announce it as a Securite on the VHF when I do it, and report my approximate position in the river, and the expected duration of my POB drills. I do this since you cant see if there are freighters coming down the river and they are fast!!"
Yes they are.... I had to crank on my engine to avoid a tanker near Bear Mountain Bridge on the Hudson River just a few weeks ago.... they are so huge...and seem like they are coming slow. When they take that turn in Peeskill Bay to head north...you better not be in the channel. They are also soo quiet until they blow their horn. Maybe they should have glass pipes like harleys!
Yes they are.... I had to crank on my engine to avoid a tanker near Bear Mountain Bridge on the Hudson River just a few weeks ago.... they are so huge...and seem like they are coming slow. When they take that turn in Peeskill Bay to head north...you better not be in the channel. They are also soo quiet until they blow their horn. Maybe they should have glass pipes like harleys!
-
Frank C
The problem with using the motor ... it's too easy to forget about the sails and the boom. Even with mainsail fully unsheeted, when using the motor that boom can swing unexpectedly across the cockpit. Practice, fer shure!Catigale wrote: ... Its is completely non-kosher to ASA, and to keel boaters, but you can effect a successful POB using motor without messing with sails at all....but you dont want to try this out under duress...practice practice practice...
- Gerald Gordon
- First Officer
- Posts: 284
- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:58 pm
- Location: O'ahu, Hawai'i
-
fran trapp
- Just Enlisted
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:21 am
- Location: Columbia, SC
Re: Capsized My 26X
Hi Folks,
Sorry to have been so long in posting the final thread. I wanted to make sure all was complete with the insurace company first.
I want to tell you all that I know. As captain, I take full responsiblity. That said I believe there were many contributing factors that I know that I will avoid and hopefully you can avoid too. I am now a keel boat sailor with a Cape Dory 25D.
Ben (now my husband) had been in England the month before the capsize. He installed a CDI roller fuller on the boat prior to leaving. My brother jamed up the roller furling the first time out so he took the mast off the boat and was using it as a motor boat for the month prior to the accident. They had actually water skied with the boat. I did not go to the lake for the 6 weeks or so that Ben was out of the country.
The rules of the boat were that the ballast must ALWAYS be kept full, even at the dock. There were 2 after market ports installed by a PO in the hull in the quater berths which when healing were below the water line. The second rule on the boat was to close those ports if you opened them.
The boat did not have an autmotic bilge pump.
Here is what I think happened: The ports were left open. It rained and the boat had water, probably lots of water in the bilge plus wet cushions and gear aft.
When we arrived at the boat the mast was on the dock. We fixed the roller furling and raised the mast. All of that messing around on and off the dock, the boat did not tip like it had an empty ballast. I DID NOT CHECK THE BALAST. I ASSUMED that the rule had been followed
There was a lot of extra equipment onboard from my brother's San Juan 24 he had just sold (I bought him that boat for the prior Christmas so I did not have to sail behind him). There were also water skis, ski belts, ski ropes extra bedding all sorts of stuff crammed in both quater berths which made it impossible to determine whether the ports were open or closed without taking all of that junk out. So I ASSUMED the second rule had been followed.
We had been having a steering issue with the boat. The steering was replaced once and Ben had adjusted it several times. I drove the boat that day and I told Ben he would have to work on the steering when he had time. It was very sloppy. In retrospect, I think the steering problem was probably lots of water in the bilge and little to no water in the balast tank and not the best adjusted wheel in the world. The boat was really wallering even in dead calm water under power.
Once we raised the sails and she started the heel, I think the water started to pour into the open starboard port. The Mac must be able to take a whole lot of water on before you can see it because I did not see any water below when I went down to stowe the cell pnone and glasses. I was in the compoanionway heading for the cockpit when the boat was knocked down the first time. I attempted to roll in the roller furling but it was stuck. I then took over the wheel and Ben worked on the lines. After the second knockdown, the water was up to the table. At that point, with the sails up (we were trying but just did not get them down) she rolled to starboard and you know the rest.
First lesson, always check all systems, that includes any ports that may be open, bilge and balast! Second lesson, don't sail behind my brother. Third lesson, get an automatic bilge. Fourth lesson, dont sail a boat with ports below the water line. This might not be a lesson, but I think I will not use CDI again. The roller furler sticking was a minor part and had it worked properly, the accident would probably still have happened. I have a profurl now-- a lot more expensive but a lot more reliable.
When I read all of your responses, collectively you all pretty much figured it out.
Fair winds to all.
By the way there is one amoung you (somewhere in Ohio) who bought my boat from the insurance company for a song! The engine (including the $1200 repair cost) was worth more than he paid for the rig. Hold Fast and Happy Holidays.
Sorry to have been so long in posting the final thread. I wanted to make sure all was complete with the insurace company first.
I want to tell you all that I know. As captain, I take full responsiblity. That said I believe there were many contributing factors that I know that I will avoid and hopefully you can avoid too. I am now a keel boat sailor with a Cape Dory 25D.
Ben (now my husband) had been in England the month before the capsize. He installed a CDI roller fuller on the boat prior to leaving. My brother jamed up the roller furling the first time out so he took the mast off the boat and was using it as a motor boat for the month prior to the accident. They had actually water skied with the boat. I did not go to the lake for the 6 weeks or so that Ben was out of the country.
The rules of the boat were that the ballast must ALWAYS be kept full, even at the dock. There were 2 after market ports installed by a PO in the hull in the quater berths which when healing were below the water line. The second rule on the boat was to close those ports if you opened them.
The boat did not have an autmotic bilge pump.
Here is what I think happened: The ports were left open. It rained and the boat had water, probably lots of water in the bilge plus wet cushions and gear aft.
When we arrived at the boat the mast was on the dock. We fixed the roller furling and raised the mast. All of that messing around on and off the dock, the boat did not tip like it had an empty ballast. I DID NOT CHECK THE BALAST. I ASSUMED that the rule had been followed
We had been having a steering issue with the boat. The steering was replaced once and Ben had adjusted it several times. I drove the boat that day and I told Ben he would have to work on the steering when he had time. It was very sloppy. In retrospect, I think the steering problem was probably lots of water in the bilge and little to no water in the balast tank and not the best adjusted wheel in the world. The boat was really wallering even in dead calm water under power.
Once we raised the sails and she started the heel, I think the water started to pour into the open starboard port. The Mac must be able to take a whole lot of water on before you can see it because I did not see any water below when I went down to stowe the cell pnone and glasses. I was in the compoanionway heading for the cockpit when the boat was knocked down the first time. I attempted to roll in the roller furling but it was stuck. I then took over the wheel and Ben worked on the lines. After the second knockdown, the water was up to the table. At that point, with the sails up (we were trying but just did not get them down) she rolled to starboard and you know the rest.
First lesson, always check all systems, that includes any ports that may be open, bilge and balast! Second lesson, don't sail behind my brother. Third lesson, get an automatic bilge. Fourth lesson, dont sail a boat with ports below the water line. This might not be a lesson, but I think I will not use CDI again. The roller furler sticking was a minor part and had it worked properly, the accident would probably still have happened. I have a profurl now-- a lot more expensive but a lot more reliable.
When I read all of your responses, collectively you all pretty much figured it out.
By the way there is one amoung you (somewhere in Ohio) who bought my boat from the insurance company for a song! The engine (including the $1200 repair cost) was worth more than he paid for the rig. Hold Fast and Happy Holidays.
-
John McDonough
- First Officer
- Posts: 421
- Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 8:57 am
- Location: pittsburgh pa..2000-26X--Honda50
Re: Capsized My 26X
The Water-Ballast tanks were EMPTY..
I recall 6 deaths from 3 Capsized 26x`s. In each case the Ballast was Empty. I will never forget this and Thank God Fran`s incidient turned out OK.
I moved my battery under the V-Berth, right next to the Ballast air-vent plug. I keep my battery charger in there and always charge & check the battery when I open the boat. I made it a habit to take the 60 seconds to check the ballast tank. If the tank is Empty I will hear air escaping as I un-screw the plug. If its full I look inside to double check that its completly full.
After hearing the horror story of the 3 capsized boats and deaths, I planned on a mod to EZ check the ballast by installing a 1" fitting and hose from the Ballast vent tied into the Anchor locker drain.
Simply put the boat in Reverse and you should see water squirting out of the drain. This insures the Ballast tanks are completely full.
I recall 6 deaths from 3 Capsized 26x`s. In each case the Ballast was Empty. I will never forget this and Thank God Fran`s incidient turned out OK.
I moved my battery under the V-Berth, right next to the Ballast air-vent plug. I keep my battery charger in there and always charge & check the battery when I open the boat. I made it a habit to take the 60 seconds to check the ballast tank. If the tank is Empty I will hear air escaping as I un-screw the plug. If its full I look inside to double check that its completly full.
After hearing the horror story of the 3 capsized boats and deaths, I planned on a mod to EZ check the ballast by installing a 1" fitting and hose from the Ballast vent tied into the Anchor locker drain.
Simply put the boat in Reverse and you should see water squirting out of the drain. This insures the Ballast tanks are completely full.
- Chinook
- Admiral
- Posts: 1730
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:20 pm
- Location: LeavenworthWA 2002 26x, Suzuki DF60A
Re: Capsized My 26X
Fran, thanks so much for posting your detailed followup on the capsize. I recall there being a lot of interest in the original incident description, and this post script really helps in understanding the event. Thanks much for sharing your experience and the lessons learned.
- Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
Re: Capsized My 26X
If by your comments you are implying that the boat is not safe with the ballast tank empty I disagree.The Water-Ballast tanks were EMPTY..
I've logged over 1,800 Nautical miles of cruising on our X, 90+% of that motoring with empty ballast tanks. Never has the boat behaved in a unsafe fashion.
Sailing with empty ballast, clearly a mistake; but the boat is designed to be, and is, perfectly safe under power with empty ballast.
Every captain must operate their boat in a prudent manner that matches the conditions. Each of the accidents you refer to (including this one) were cases where human error in operating the boat was the cause, not the boat itself.
- J.Teixeira
- First Officer
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:12 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: ARIANE - Europe - Portugal - Douro Valey - Dehler 24 - Bass Fishing
- Contact:
Re: Capsized My 26X
Checklist for a Mac
1 - Print and bring the Weather forecast
2 - Check Ballast Tank
3 - Check the bilge for water
4 - Check the Fuel Tank
5 - Check VHF
6 - Check GPS
7 - Check Safety gear (life jackets for all, flares...)
8 - Check the forestay pins
9 - Check Rudder position
10 - Check Daggerboard position.
THERE ARE NO EXCUSES !
IT TAKES LESS THAN 5 MINUTES...
I have this short list outside
the head door.
It seems an unnecessary reminder but...
Somme times the "anxiety" of going sailing...
JT
1 - Print and bring the Weather forecast
2 - Check Ballast Tank
3 - Check the bilge for water
4 - Check the Fuel Tank
5 - Check VHF
6 - Check GPS
7 - Check Safety gear (life jackets for all, flares...)
8 - Check the forestay pins
9 - Check Rudder position
10 - Check Daggerboard position.
THERE ARE NO EXCUSES !
IT TAKES LESS THAN 5 MINUTES...
I have this short list outside
It seems an unnecessary reminder but...
Somme times the "anxiety" of going sailing...
JT
- Gerry the fish
- Chief Steward
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:07 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Portland, OR; '08 Mac M, Suzuki 50 and Lido 14
Re: Capsized My 26X
I think a substantial amount of water in the bilge above empty ballast tanks was the implied unsafe condition. In such a case, the added water will add zero righting moment and along with the rest of the gear - lots of sinking moment.Duane Dunn, Allegro wrote:If by your comments you are implying that the boat is not safe with the ballast tank empty I disagree.The Water-Ballast tanks were EMPTY..
-
Kelly Hanson East
- Admiral
- Posts: 1786
- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:35 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Kelly Hanson Marine........Mac 26M Dealer......Freedom Boat Works
Re: Capsized My 26X
Fran - thanks a lot for the followup....and congrats to you and Ben!!
Happy sailing!
Happy sailing!
