Are These Boats Suitable for Bluewater Cruising?

[Fairwinds]

Hello cat..A friend of mine has an older Mac 25-26 model. It has a pop-top cabin and a steel centerboard. It will perform respectably going upwind and is a fun boat to sail. I'm a little disappointed that the "X" & "M" models have sacrificed their sailing ability so they can pull water-skiers...

[Catigale]

I'm a little disappointed that the "X" & "M" models have sacrificed their sailing ability so they can pull water-skiers...

I forget that disappointment when I take the family out for 5 days on the Cape and watch them read books down below on a rainy day!!!

I first heard about Macs 10 years ago on a sailing board where serious keelboater took me through hull speed, then told me for the Upper Hudson, where I live, "get a macgregor"....the river is shallow, tidal and shifty....

"...you will get blasted by the purists but you wont hear them, you will be out sailing...."

so true....

[Fairwinds]

You are of course correct Cat. Sailors fall in love with their boats and quickly learn to deal with their shortcomings. Costa, my former love, had MANY but we loved her anyway..She never hurt us or let us down.

But I haven't fallen in love with Miss McGregor yet, so I'm sizing her up carefully. That way, I hope, no morning after surprises.. You guys are all madly in love, so I must be careful here. I'll try to probe gently.

I notice after-market companies make "improved" rudders. Do the stock ones need improvement?

[pokerrick1]

I notice after-market companies make "improved" rudders. Do the stock ones need improvement?

Not in my opinion they don't. I've read that slow speed steering used to be a problem on some X's, but that has been completely eliminated on the M's. Slow power speed and drifting speed steering on my M is EXCELLENT. When I can't sail back into my dock I just drift back into it in neutral every time. Slow speed steering is now a plus. I've has my M 15 months now and never had ANY rudder problem (except when the dummy forgets to put them down - - - then it doesn't steer)

Rick

[delevi]

There is no problem, per say with the rudders or steering, especially when you talk about low speeds. The problem is when sailing in heavy air. The stock rudders, in my opinion are too small for the task of 20+ knots wind. Despite all efforts to counteract weather helm, there is just not enough rudder to keep the boat on track without rounding to weather unless you spill the main. With larger rudders, the boat keeps a much better course. Sometimes, air still needs to be spilled a bit from the main in big gusts, but not nearly as much. The larger rudders will take a lot more before they stall. Excellent upgrade for anyone sailing in heavy air with any frequency. Just my experience.

Leon

[Frank C]

I notice after-market companies make "improved" rudders. Do the stock ones need improvement?

FWIW, using the Search button 'effectively' is sometimes difficult (see top-center of every page). In this case I searched on [ida rudders] to get a long string of hits. I just extracted these few for you, to get you started. Lots of reading here ... might be useful.

Problem coming about

Who Owns IDA Sailor Rudders?

Ordered New, larger Rudders

Problems with Excessive Heel & Rounding Up

Swing Keel mod for X (maybe)

I won't bother your new Centerboard thread. However, you might find ample discussion of both centerboard AND rudders among these linked threads. After some background reading you might find more explicit questions are even more valuable.

... You guys are all madly in love, so I must be careful here. I'll try to probe gently.

Not too surprising, eh?
Your recognition is noted, and appreciated.

[Catigale]

(except when the dummy forgets to put them down - - - then it doesn't steer) Surprised Very Happy Neutral

Hey! Ive had that guy on my boat!!!

[Terry]

Fairwinds wrote:

But I haven't fallen in love with Miss McGregor yet, so I'm sizing her up carefully. That way, I hope, no morning after surprises.. You guys are all madly in love, so I must be careful here. I'll try to probe gently.

I can assure you it was not love at first sight for me either (same goes for Eric, he named his "Ugly Duck").
A few years back I took my wife to the Vancouver Boatshow and looked at the MacX along with the other sailboats and my first impression was "it's not a real sailboat" but my wife looked at it and declared "I really like that boat" Well she got the brochure and left it out for me and I spent a year looking it over trying to appreciate it through my biased mind. I finally reached the point where I realized that if I want to have a sailboat it better be one my wife likes or I am not getting one. So it was then I decided to fall in love. Fast forward to present.
Funny how hindsight works, after a few seasons sailing I am in a better position to re-evaluate the decision and realize I made a good one, I fulfilled my needs instead of my wants. I still have the wants but that is all they are. Given my sailing venue, style and seasons here the Mac is a perfect match. I moore for 8 months in the driveway and 4 months in a slip. I can work on it in my driveway then tow it to any destination. It is affordable and versatile. The boat has it's compromises but the benefits far outweigh the negatives. The only thing I really hate about it is the skinny beam but that makes it trailerable (Could be 8'6" beam though). It is kinda like having a very beautiful wife who is fat, you overlook that fault because she is so fine in every other way. So now I am in love.
PS No you guys the Admiral is not FAT, just an analogy, no need to read into something that is not there.

[Catigale]

Terry- what do you say when the Admiral asks "Does the Mac make my rear look big??"

[Mikebe]

Well, I can't add anything from experience...I just bought a 2007 26M and am putting it in the water for the first time day after tomorrow (so excited I can hardly stand it!). But what I can tell you is I spent the last five years looking for the right boat. I wanted a sailboat. The wife wanted a powerboat. I almost bought a 45 foot custom steel-hulled trawler with a mast a couple of years ago, but the Admiral didn't like it. When I discovered the Mac, it was the perfect solution. I have some previous experience sailing, and with power boating (a 16' bayliner, not to mention 8 years on a Knox class destroyer, now thats a power boat!), but as I see the Mac, it's combination of power, sailing, and trailerability simply makes it a more versatile piece of equipment. It is less important to me that the boat doesn't sail upwind as well as a traditional sailboat than it is that I will arrive at the destination ahead of the traditional sailboat if I choose to (assuming I have the fuel.)
I like sailing. It's fun. But the bottom line is what the boat can do and what I can do with it. To me, the Mac just seems like a superior piece of technology. It's great it also happens to be something I can afford.

[Fairwinds]

Great stuff guys, this is what I'm looking for!

Here is one of my recurring nightmares. Can any of you relate to this.

You are sailing downwind in a good stiff breeze. It has built up slowly, and the boat is tearing along, the sails out full, what fun! maybe I should reef, but this is too much fun! But the seas are building and now as the big ones roll up under you from behind you start surfing down the front side before the swell finally passes under you. The next big one and the stern starts to come around, the dreaded and dangerous broach and the pressure on the steering is tremendous. You fight desperately to keep the bow turned down hill, the swell lifts you up up and finally passes harmlessly under you. Whew!! get those sails reefed! Get the main down!

It's at that heart-stopping moment when the boat was accelerating down the face of the wave and the wheel was trying to tear out of your hands, that you don't want any sickening release of tension as the rudders become little white specks in your wake..

In my case I could live with a Mac and at least get on a first name basis with her, but it's my wife who glanced at the stern as she was preparing to climb aboard and said "Look at those cheesy rudders!" I replied, yes dear, but at least there are two of them..

[Terry]

Faiwinds
My wife & I have lived your so called nightmare but the Mac handled it like a dream. We were on our last day of a multiple day trip and the usual NW wind overnight changed to a SE which meant bad weather approaching. We could have remained at that marina and waited it out for a couple days but I knew we could make it back in 4 hours and just ahead of the storm if we got going. So away we went down wind after we got out in the clear for a good two hours of the trip. I left the engine down and running at 2000-2500 rpm to help keep her straight and ran with full main & jib, we surfed those big rollers all the way back with the storm right on our heals. Well we made it back to home marina and by the time we got the mac put away in her slip and headed for the car the big winds and rain hit us. We just made it and none too soon, pretty harried run, scary but fun in a dangerous sort of way. I think keeping that engine going kept us from broaching but the speeds were 8 knots + all the way on the gps, fastest time ever on that run and I've made it several times before under calmer conditions. (No way 2500 rpm can get you 8 knots)

[opie]

As for the strength of the "X" rudders, how about this: Yesterday the admiral and I launced at Wrightsville Beach ramp at dead low tide. We have done this before. As newer sailors we did not realize that there are low tides and low-low-low tides. I remember seeing a lot of mud in the channel, but did not think about it. I trailered in, off-loaded with ease, as always, and parked the car and trailer. We got on the boat, lowered and locked the rudders as usual and lowered the motor and backed out. Whoops.... the "X" stopped dead and spun 1/2 way around until the nose hit the opposite dock side. Looking back I could see sand and clams and oyster shells very clearly. The motor and rudders had turned to full left and the rudders were warped and straining. I cut the engine, raised it, and people came over to help. Dumb me, I accepted their help and threw all dock lines to them and they pulled the boat so that the rudders dug in deeper and bent more. But, when I finally got some forward movement and raised them...NO Damage except for a few dings at the end. Those things are tough.
We went out again today (the admiral is usually the one who insists we go) and we beached the "X" on two islands here and had a blast.
Opie

[Fairwinds]

Thanks terry, that was reassuring..Here is a story for you..

We were taking the "Fast Ferry" back from Victoria to Seattle on the Forth of July 4 years ago..At the dock, we got an OK for departure, the weather a little rough crossing the Straights (of Juan deFuca). These huge catamarans are powered by twin locomotive diesels, one in each hull. They run at 30 to 40 knots. Well it REALLY got rough but we kept bounding along until finally the bow "dug in" to the back of a huge wave instead of climbing over it. The ferry had large front windows which they said they were going to cover before departure, but they did not..The passengers were all looking at green water, like a submarine, but the glass held and the captain instantly cut power allowing the boat to "back out" of the wave..On the front deck were tied down four 50 man life rafts in fiberglass containers. Two of them were gone, along with 30 feet of steel railing. We changed course, limped in behind the San Juan Islands and arrived in Seattle after midnight..

Anyway, that's fine country you live in!

Thanks Opie! If you can barber-pole them like that, they must be strong enough..Can you sail year-round there?

[Frank C]

The rudders look "cheesy" because you're accustomed to looking at rudders on a 5 or 6 ton boat. These rudders would surely snap under that sort of pressure, but they're designed for a 2-ton boat ... serving that need just fine. Same story with the shrouds.