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I also sail wing on wing poleless with 150 Genny quite frequently, now that you mention it, I've probably never tried with the standard jib though. If the sail starts collapsing, you are going too far downwind and you need to head up a bit...but not too far or else the mainsail will gybe. Btw, I noticed my main now has a little hole it it where it hits the spreaders. That was what I forgot to buy at WM the other day..a bit of sail tape to keep it from spreading. Anyway, that is the disadvantage of a swept back rig, can't put the main all the way out.

I've heard many of these poor man preventer ideas but I guess I just have bad memories of my harness getting caught by a boom loop one time when gybing a windsurfer. Guess it depends on the wind but an uncontrolled gybe can make you think the pedestal will be ripped out of the cockpit sole!

So does anyone know the dimensions on Roger's racing spin?

We know that a broad reach is faster in good air, and flying the asym is faster in light air, but we choose the wing and wing going ddw most often because we are not in a hurry, we just want a flat cockpit seat on which to lay out food, utensils, stemware, etc. The lack of wind over the cockpit may be warmer, but it also doesn't blow away the napkins, chips, or table cloth... We don't do it for lunch if there is much of a following sea, or a quartering one, as the difference in sail size, between main and genny plus the square stern will cause a repetitive rolling motion that defeats the flat cockpit idea.

I'm not convinced that broad reaching with an assymetrical spinnaker on my Mac is quicker than wing to wing. It seems like it gets blanketed too much by the main and if one sails up to fill it, you don't gain anything because you're heading to much to windward. I need to do some more experiments with my VMG display. I'm pretty sure that the best downwind speed while broad reaching is when my genoa is not completely filling due to blanketing by the main.

baldbaby2000 wrote: ... I'm pretty sure that the best downwind speed while broad reaching is when my genoa is not completely filling due to blanketing by the main.

Dan,

During sailing class this past couple of months was my first understanding of sailing by the lee, intentionally, which solves that blanketing problem by keeping the mainsail to windward. In the Capri 22 we ran without a preventer .... winds weren't vicious and we could catch an unintended jibe by hand. Due to the much larger sails and rigging on the Ericsson 27 and Cal 31, I'd be scared of the surprise-jibe, but on the little boat it was a great, fun experience. Can't remember if the Capri has spreaders aft ... his boat, his risk, my gain!

I haven't tried it with my 26X, but for flat water it might be effective if our spreaders would permit. I doubt the 26X mainsail is any larger than the Capri 22, but I surely wouldn't try it on my boat without a preventer.

Basically, sailing by the lee is jibing the stern across the wind, but leaving the boom to windward (not performing the jibe), while also avoid backwinding the main. The result leaves the wind blowing into the main at an extremely narrow angle, while it can also completely fill the Genoa from almost 90 degrees-direct. The dinghy racers use it as a tactic. If I was any good with the drawing software I'd attach a drawing to explain for those who are unaware, as I was. Maybe I can find a diagram using Google.

Frank C wrote:Basically, sailing by the lee is jibing the stern across the wind, but leaving the boom to windward (not performing the jibe), while also avoid backwinding the main. The result leaves the wind blowing into the main at an extremely narrow angle, while it can also completely fill the Genoa from almost 90 degrees-direct. The dinghy racers use it as a tactic. If I was any good with the drawing software I'd attach a drawing to explain for those who are unaware, as I was. Maybe I can find a diagram using Google.

I've done it quite often in my Harpoon, but not yet in the Mac. I did manage to find a picture, but perhaps it's not what you might have had in mind!

One note, that in this image the jib has not been brought across 'wing-on-wing' as is the usual practice when sailing by the lee. If the jib is brought across then the chances of an accidental jibe are somewhat reduced - but clearly NOT removed.

* Sailing by the lee - running with the wind on the same side as the boom. Generally undesirable because of the increased risk of an accidental gybe. Be very careful when sailing by the lee. It is a good practice to get into to have the crew or skipper hold the boom when sailing downwind. It could prevent injury in the event of an accidental gybe.

Actually Kevin, that view completely mystifies me, but then I'm not claiming to really understand completely, either. But it appears to me that they swing the boom - invalidating the premise.

I'm not sure if my picture is technically accurate either, but it shows the general principle that we were taught while performing "by the lee" on the Capri 22 - hope it is:
1) valid, and therefore useful;
2) somewhat clearer than fog.

Sailing by the Lee: leaves the wind blowing into the main at an extremely narrow angle,
while it can also completely fill the Genoa from almost 90 degrees-direct.

Yeah, that's a better picture. As I noted, the jib in my graphic had not been brought across, so it does not appear the same.

My main doesn't blanket the jib unles I'm sailing DDW. Even 15 deg off the wind and the sails don't need to be winged. Does the genoa or spin behave differently? I often see sailors with spinakers draw their main to centerline, basically making it ineffective, but allowing the spin to do all the work w/o having any wind blocked by the meain.

Delevi,

Basically, that is what I do when I'm overtaken by a strong wind line or squall while running DDW with a spin or genny & main up. It lets one 'reduce' sail area until things blow by without having to reef the main. but, I ALWAYS come off auto pilot when doing this so I don't risk rounding up. MM

If sailing by the lee, a preventer should be on the boom. If no preventer is on the boom, then it is a safe and wise practice to center the boom with mainsheet tight in gusty conditions going ddw, or in quartering seas, or when in heavy power boat wake areas. Just for control purposes.

I saw a novice sailor on a Cat 30 do an accidental jibe in ten knots of wind because a large deep draft power cruiser cut him close astern. When the wave hit his stern quarters, his boat lifted and rolled, the boom shot over and knocked the hat off his wife. Must have been only an inch from hitting her the head.

I already know one sailor's wife who was hit in the head with a boom and although she lived, her memory is so poor she can't drive, sail or crew athe boat, take care of the house, etc. That sort of ruined his boating pleasure. Don't let preventable accidents ruin yours.

I have sailed by the lee downwind WOW as Frank describes and shows in his diagram; I find this easier and nearly as effective as Dead Down Wind, but ONLY when I have a preventer rigged. This is such an easy thing to do that there's little reason not to take the moments to rig the preventer. I use my old boom vang that is left over since adding the Garhauer rigid vang, although any similar tackle will do. I just clip it to a bale that I attached to the bottom of the boom and bring it over to the stanchion plate which has a place to hook it. I use this when I know I'm going to be on that sun for a while. I only use one preventer, using it on either side.
This pic shows the bale on the boom just aft of the vang mount:

Wing on by the lee, DDW, spinnaker, no pole. FYI, LOL

Thought I'd try it this weekend.

Nice Scott, very nice!

Here it is, I had a buddy of mine with his 25' Lund drive side by side at varying speeds to test the accuracy of my speed reader and from what we could tell it matched up pretty close to what his speedo was reading. (I know not the greatest test but when I get my gps I will do a very thorough test) I did hit 21 but couldn't get off the snap quickly enough. I do around 15 ballast full.



Wake at 21kts

Wake at 17.5mph (15.2 knots)(gps) @5000 feet above sealevel using a merc 60BF. 2 adults on board, no mast or rigging.



---Harrison