MacGregorSailors.com

Frank, Catigale, & Bill,

I respect all of your knowledge & opinions but must disagree about the safety issue. How can it possibly be safer going to the foredeck to drop the jib compared to pulling on a line. I have reefed or fully rolled up my jib in very windy conditions on San Francisco Bay. You just have to give the sheet enough slack, wear gloves and pull. Go about to 1/5 at a time, letting out more sheet, rolling in some more jib & repeat. Takes a bit of elbow grease but you don't have to be a he-man. I'm not. It is much more dangerous going up on deck in rough conditions and certainly defeats the purpose of leading your halyards aft. The instant reefing is a huge benefit as well. Granted you lose some performance but it is far outweighed by the gain in a much needed sail reduction when conditions warrant.

As for the argument about the furler jamming. I had it happen while single-handing. I heaved to. Went up on the foredeck (which I would have to do anyway to drop a hanked jib,) un-jammed the furler, untwisted the jib & sheets, back to the cockpit and rolled the baby up. Ok, so suppose I couldn't un-jam it. You can still drop the jib from a furling unit if you keep a messenger line on board. Takes a bit of work, but if you're in a pinch, you do what you have to do. So many other things on a sailboat can fail, so why single out the RF?

Bill, I have northing but praises for you, but I just can't see how you believe that a novice sailor is safer with a hanked on jib, having to go to the foredeck every time, rather than using a simple device, which is for the most part, quite reliable, and have the jib up or down in seconds from the safety of the cockpit.

Dimitri-2000X-Tampa

My first choice would be hanks, if were able to make that decision when purchasing. I have a furler, and am very experienced having installed other manufacturers with swiveling halyard tensioner. I have used many furlers, foils, and hanked on sails. I mention the HeadFoil 2 as it is one of the best and it also takes the standard Luff Tape with the #6 bead on the tape. It is the same as the CDI FF2 and fits the Foil of the HeadFoil 2s double groove. I have HeadFoil 2, but prefer the head stay and hanks. I could save some boat bucks by using the Headfoil 2 and storing, selling or swapping out the CDI FF2 when I felt like doing so, but yes, I would be gaining performance and paying by having to pull the headsail down and having to pre-feed it and work pulling it up. Notice it is worth at least 3 seconds per mile, but then those Hanks are fast, easy to drop and hoist, safe, and a whole lot less expensive, and provide better boat handling and performance and most of all; "Stepping the Mast" would be much improved and I would avoid all the storing labors, rigging, socks, leach covers and dangers included .
Ah yes, The lowley hank and all those advantages.

For my part, I think I might buy a hank-on std.jib from Minney's and just stow the CDI and 135 tapedrive Genoa.

- in my experience, I've never actually felt A NEED to reef the jib;

Frank,
Do you really never furl in some of that 135 Genny? How do you keep your boat from being overpowered on The Bay? I personally never had a genoa, just my 100 jib, but as mentioned many times before, I frequently reef both sails.

PS. Before buying the hanked-on jib, imagine going up on the foredeck in 25 knts and big chop to hoist or drop your jib.

Again, my argument for the RF being a much safer choice.

Leon,

Yeah, I've reefed that Genoa, time-to-time. That's when I've had the *#$@# RF jammed. But those days I've had most fun, it was std.jib, like you, instead of the Genoa. On those days, I've felt that reefing the mainsail was the ticket, not the jib. I'm not yet rigged for it, but have no intention of going on deck to drop the hanked jib - you missed my (downhaul) comment. We can discuss these pros & cons someday at Ayala Cove.

I think some of you may have gotten my comments confused with those of others, or maybe you just didn't understand them.
I virtually never go on the foredeck, while underway.
I have a downhaul on my headsail, that I do from the cockpit.
I can make a headsail change from the forward harch.
I even drop anchor from the cockpit.
My halyards are led aft to the helm, as are my sheets.
I think some of you are under the impression that if it costs more it must be better.

So Bill, on the I have no forward hatch... I do have a downhaul and halyards led to the cockpit, but seem to end up on deck changing sails. I that case, would you think the furler would be safer when single handing? I'm asking in reference to my original poll question -- just can't decide if it's worth the money.... maybe I just need to focus on better sail selection in the first place!

I value the opinions on this and have enjoyed the debate, but I'm afraid I have even more mixed feelings on the subject now than when I started the thread!

Dimitri-2000X-Tampa wrote:.P.S. I respect Bill's comments about not overselling the RF to novice buyers...afterall, its another gadget which increases complexity. But face it, a novice may be more likely to get themselves in trouble with a big motor versus a RF. You can't very well abolish kitchen knives just because they could be dangerous if used the wrong way.

Except there's one very big difference ... the novice can always chop throttle when the big motor gets him into trouble. Problem is, you can't chop throttle when that RF gets jammed.

Bill,
My bad. I didn't consider jib halyard and downhaul both lead aft. Still sounds like a hassle with the messy sail on the foredeck and having to leave the helm to go to the forward hatch. If I was to ever consider giving up my furler, I would want Jib & Genny options without going on deck. Have you ever installed double headstays with one of each sail rigged to each stay?

Zavala,

It sounds like the bottom line is this:

If you want to peak your performance (arguably), easier sail changes, slightly easier de-rigging, and the lowest cost solution, go for the hanks.

If you want to instantly have your jib/genny flying or rolled up, with the option of roller reefing any time you need it or go back up to maximum headsail area just as easily, and not having to go on deck to deal with your headsail, ever (99% of the time) go for the furler.

The safety issue I think is debatable, but I don't sell boats and Bill, who does, advises his customers against RF, even though he could make money selling it to them. Good luck.

Richard O'Brien,
How abouts we race our 26Ms at the Leukemia cup on Chatfield on 19-21 May?

BB

zavala

When I've buried the bow of my mac19 cutter rig 2ft into a 12-15 ft swell on a 35deg keel . I'd just love to see you guy's who would be brave enough to go up on deck & retrieve your jib/Genoa sail "give me a break"
I've had my Fuller's jam on me but common sense tells you to work the furler back & forth & in no time at all it's unjammed & It does 'nt matter what furling system you have if its going to jam it's going to happen It's called Murphy's law. so while I'm trying to unjam myfurler your m.o.b.

Frank C wrote: Except there's one very big difference ... the novice can always chop throttle when the big motor gets him into trouble. Problem is, you can't chop throttle when that RF gets jammed.

Sure ya can Frank...its called Heaving-to. Sailing is about gaining experience in adverse conditions (note my new signature). Frankly, I was cracking up when I first read the Mac manual with all its little safety tips like never cleating the mainsheet. If you can't deal with the extra complexities, perhaps its time to sell the sailboat and just go back to being an unskilled power boat driver (ie. no "skipper" or "captain" in that title). In my neck of the woods, when you go out on a nice calm weekend, Tampa Bay is totally polluted with powerboaters....I kind of like that feeling of going out there with 20kn winds and being the only boat within sight. Single handing of course because high winds tend to stress the family out...

Zavala - I'm doing some mods on my this winter. I haven't sailed on one a lot, but, no I am not going to put RF on it.
I will put oar lock sockets on it (I haven't gotten the oarlock sockets figured out yet for the 26M, maybe on the Genoa track, maybe not. Either way, I won't be able to give them a test until spring.); a 26M mast carrier; jib track; probably some opening ports; possibly a bigger obm (it has a 30 hp obm now); looking into the EZ Stick steering; a way to raise the main hatch horizontally, instead of hinged at the front; maybe a poptop cover like on the 26C; I've got rudders from Ida sailor; 8-track tape player; etc.

I have a 1988 26D, and have hank on jib and genny.

since I trailer always, the furler seems like it would be a pain, and more expensive when I break /bend it.

yeah, the hank on's are a pain, but I just got a tiller pilot, and now it all fine.

(I do have all halyards led aft, so I'm on the bow for just a few moments.....

Hi bill at "Boats 4 Sail"

Have you tried your ida sail rudders yet I'd be real interested to find out if they are as good as Ida Sailor say they are . How much more longer in length are they & are they the same width . Also can they be left down while motoring like the original rudders

Thx john S.

Hi Bill 'boats 4 sail"

I'm also thinking of a Pop Top or maybe even a curved window made from 1/4" lexan "black" that would match the 2 black curved stripes on the mac19 & make it a snap-on hard top I'm making one out of cardboard to see what it will look like

Zavala

I've e/m you some more movie shots of my cutter rig hope you got them ok will send more shortly
thx John S