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Phil M wrote:

Gypsy wrote:
The only place on a sailboat that a light can be seen 360 degrees is atop the mast.
Any other place and the mast or rigging is going to at least partially block it , making it illegal .
The rule also calls for one all around light , so making a 360 circle using two lights isn't legal either.

One anchor light - good. Two anchors lights - bad.
And the reason behind that might be? (Besides rules is rules...)

Phil M

Because its the RULE !!!!

Seriously , I argued the same thing in the other thread . I wanted to use the masthead light and the stern light together . This would make 360 degrees ,and I thought fit the lower in the stern part of the rule , or hang some lights from the spreaders that would also light the decks.
Some combination of lights that would make 360 .
The rule states it must be an all around light . Earlier in the book , it defines an all around light .
A combination of lights doesn't fit the description or defination .


We aren't talking common sense or what is practical . We are talking "letter of the law" legal . If you are involved in an accident you might end up liable if its not letter of the law perfect , thats the world we live in.

I bet my idea of using masthead and stern lights together would satisfy every law enforcement agency in the land . BUT will it satisfy some hungry lawyer ?

The rules as put down by the powers that be ... are they written "At Anchor Light" or "At Anchor Lights"

I know it's a minor variation, BUT, legal dudes seem to love playing with variations.

Glenn

The Mutt wrote:The rules as put down by the powers that be ... are they written "At Anchor Light" or "At Anchor Lights"

I know it's a minor variation, BUT, legal dudes seem to love playing with variations.

Glenn

Rule 30 : Anchored Vessels and vessels aground
(a) A vessel shall exhibit where it can best be seen :
(i) in the fore part , an all around white light or one ball ;
(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in sub-paragraph (i) an
all-round white light.
(b) A vessel less than 50 metres in length may exhibit an all around white light where it can be best instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

Anchored Vessels and where it can be best be seen are how they word it.
'Best be seen' could be debated . In my opinion , lower down would be best , a slight break by the mast or rigging , wouldn't hurt it as you could see white light on either side.

I don't know , seems to me a lower light or two lights would better be seen by a fisherman coming towards you than a single light 36 feet in the air, that could more easily blend into , say a shoreline . For the sake of liability I am putting a light on the mast and lights to light up the deck , lower down.

There are several sayings (better to be seen than worry),(might be right but dead right).
Anchoring out of the channel, use as many lights as you want to be seen, there is no restrictions for even a red or other color used on boat in cockpit while anchored as long as it doesn't interfer with Navigation on other boats.
Under way the Mast head 360 is ok but for Intercoastal Cruiseing I perfer a Stearn light and a forward mast light to do the 360 degree. The fore light will shine on head sail and Stearn light will be low enough and bright for any fast moveing Powerboat to see you.
In SW Florida it is normal for a Powerboat coming up the stearn 30 knots or more, even in moonless nights. Most reley on high tec Navigation or just local knowledge and experance.
Message is to be seen under way or anchorage and have a good nights sleep.
Dave

Gypsy wrote:Rule 30 : Anchored Vessels and vessels aground
(a) A vessel shall exhibit where it can best be seen :
(i) in the fore part , an all around white light or one ball ;
(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in sub-paragraph (i) an
all-round white light.
(b) A vessel less than 50 metres in length may exhibit an all around white light where it can be best instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

Anchored Vessels and where it can be best be seen are how they word it.
'Best be seen' could be debated . In my opinion , lower down would be best , a slight break by the mast or rigging , wouldn't hurt it as you could see white light on either side.

I don't know , seems to me a lower light or two lights would better be seen by a fisherman coming towards you than a single light 36 feet in the air, that could more easily blend into , say a shoreline . For the sake of liability I am putting a light on the mast and lights to light up the deck , lower down.

DaveB wrote:I perfer a Stearn light and a forward mast light to do the 360 degree. The fore light will shine on head sail and Stearn light will be low enough and bright for any fast moveing Powerboat to see you.

I hope that you have the motor down and are under power in this configuration, as otherwise, you are clearly in violation of the COLREGS, regardless of having sails up.

~Rich

Dave,

I agree with Rich.

for Intercoastal Cruiseing I perfer a Stearn light and a forward mast light to do the 360 degree

Sure sounds like what the rule makers had in mind for vessels under power.

Under way the Mast head 360 is ok

Sure sounds like what the rule makers had in mind for anchored vessels.

AND, guitar nuts are all over Ebay for less than $3. Whats the problem?

Ken

I fully agree that the more light while at anchor , the better.
But the light on top of the mast is useless except for one thing , and thats being legal.
Being legal might be the difference between who is liable in an accident .

Lake Martin , a powerboat literally ran over an anchored pontoon boat , at night , killing several people aboard the pontoon.
The powerboats defense was that the anchor light was wrapped up in the bimini top of the pontooner.
Somehow the court/jury determined the light was on and visible , the powerboater was found guilty of manslaughter and sentenced to some years in jail. It was also determined alcohol was involved .

Moral of story , it came down to whether the pontooner had a legal anchor light.

I am in the process of building a small bracket and mounting a CG approved light on top of my mast ,
that will plug into the deck plug for the masthead light.
I also plan to add light in the cockpit area , that will also stay on in addition to the topmast light .

I did seperate the stern light from the red/grn nav lights when I rewired the switch panel . So I can turn on just the masthead light and the stern light or any combination , if I feel the need .

Actually, the operator was well connected and had a light sentencing judge.

Cumbie was sentenced to 24 months for Homicide by Vessel, 24 months for Assault 2nd, both felonies, and 12 month each for 3 misdemeanor Assault charges in Judge Ben Fuller's courtroom. However, the sentences will all run concurrent, and as part of the plea agreement, Judge Fuller split the sentence to serve 12 months.

In total, Cumbie will spend the next 12 months in prison followed by three years on probation as part of the plea deal.

Micheal Vick got twice that time for killing dogs. Go figure..........

Ken

ake Martin , a powerboat literally ran over an anchored pontoon boat , at night , killing several people aboard the pontoon.
The powerboats defense was that the anchor light was wrapped up in the bimini top of the pontooner.
Somehow the court/jury determined the light was on and visible , the powerboater was found guilty of manslaughter and sentenced to some years in jail. It was also determined alcohol was involved .

Moral of story , it came down to whether the pontooner had a legal anchor light.

I doubt that the light had a huge sway on the case. Running over anyone at anchor bears substantial responsibility by the captain of the moving vessel...my guess is even without the light, there would have been substantial civil and probably criminal findings against the moving vessels' master

Catigale wrote:

ake Martin , a powerboat literally ran over an anchored pontoon boat , at night , killing several people aboard the pontoon.
The powerboats defense was that the anchor light was wrapped up in the bimini top of the pontooner.
Somehow the court/jury determined the light was on and visible , the powerboater was found guilty of manslaughter and sentenced to some years in jail. It was also determined alcohol was involved .

Moral of story , it came down to whether the pontooner had a legal anchor light.

I doubt that the light had a huge sway on the case. Running over anyone at anchor bears substantial responsibility by the captain of the moving vessel...my guess is even without the light, there would have been substantial civil and probably criminal findings against the moving vessels' master

And you are probably right !
BUT that was the first thing out of the defenses mouth .
Had the powerboater not been drinking it might have gone the other way , He may have walked away.

I do not think the light on top of the mast will make us one bit safer . I think deck level lights will be easier to see by an approaching boat .
As said earlier , I don't think any law enforcement agency will ever give you a ticket , if you don't have a masttop light , but do have anchor lights on , but thats not the point .
The legal light is simply ,, legal protection , agaisnt other boaters , and possibly your own guests.

Retcoastie wrote:

Micheal Vick got twice that time for killing dogs. Go figure..........

It makes sense to me. I like my dogs better than many people I have met.

Please reread the COLREGS Annex I. A mast top mounted anchor light is not the only legal one and an all around light may be occluded by 55 degrees, so you can raise a light above you boom level and be perfectly legal,

~Rich

Yesterday I installed my masttop light .
I made a L shape from a piece of aluminum angle 3" x 3"

I bought a 360 white light that has a base and 8" pole , with the wire coming out of the bottom of the base .

I drilled the necassary holes in the L shaped bracket and bolted to an existing bolt that held the topping lift line and the stern stay .

At the bottom of the mast I enlarged a prexisting hole that was below the hole where the wire comes out for the masthead light .

I ran a fishtape thru this hole and out the top of the mast .

I pulled 16 ga " blue hose " wire thru the mast . Blue Hose is a nickname for a type wire that is used for computer interfaces , hard wire runs between computers . Its very low resistance and has a grounding sleeve inside the insulation , making it very durable.

I soldered the light on , waterproofed the splice with liquid tape , and mounted light and bracket . Nice looking installation . I still have room to eventually mount my VHF antenna up there as well.

I need to order my plug , and I'll be finished with that part of my rewire job.

I can now switch from either a mastop all around light or I can switch on the mast head light , and the stern light , by themselves. Two alternatives for anchoring

Hamin' X wrote:Please reread the COLREGS Annex I. A mast top mounted anchor light is not the only legal one and an all around light may be occluded by 55 degrees, so you can raise a light above you boom level and be perfectly legal,

~Rich

Can you copy the COLREGS Annex I over ? Its not in my book.
The Book I have contains other stuff and possibly they didn't put it all in.

WOW....So This Whole thread 5 pages 73 replies..is about???? How to possibly get around Investing....... $50 and an hours time to CYA!
If you just mount a USCG approved $35 light at the top of the mast No annex sha-man-nex CYA! and you can remember to turn the darn thing on.. Your Covered? Hahahahahaaha...... Bring back any number of junk built or X v M threads....
Bottom Line BTW USCG approved for 2 NM's