MacGregorSailors.com

Guys! Calm down - your starting to act like me - I think I have been a bad influence on you guys - remember - IT'S A BREAKER PANEL!! EVERYTHING IS PROTECTED! You guys are going crazy because I have no fuse on something but each device has it's OWN BREAKER - remember? The breaker panel? That's what the thread was all about in the first place! Everything is protected! The pump can't burn up anything when it's on a breaker!

So - the bilge pump has it's own breaker and the AP has it's own breaker and the Backbone has it's own breaker and even the manual bilge pump override will have it's own breaker!!! GEEZE! what more do you want??

Just calm down.

And the whole point of the bilge pump is to PUMP OUT SHOWER WATER! (Remember - it's a SHOWER MOD!) Now, if your gonna put in a bilge pump to pump out the shower there is nothing wrong with using the same pump to clear the bilge! GEEEZE! What's wrong with that? It's a BILGE PUMP!

Anyways - I thought you guys wanted pictures of the shower mod - we still have a LONG way to go so try to keep calm - this is the first time I have allowed you guys to follow me though the mod process and it's a lot like making sausage - it gets messy but the end result tastes real good. Usually I just wait till I am done to post mods to you guys for that reason but this time I thought I would include you in the process. Try not to go crazy.

BOAT "Mark" U r missing my point the reason for a buss fuse directly at the Batt,s is to protect the battery cables & main power cables feeding ur main power panels because if u should end up with a short for what ever reason in ur main power & or battery cables by the time u realize it like seeing a lot of smoke or smell something burning or a fire by the time u get to ur batt. switch to turn off ur batt,s it,ll b too late the damage will b already done . with a buss fuse in place directly at the batts u should b covered
Remember ur switch panel or panels circuit breakers only protect the wiring & accessories between the switch panel & accessories
Soley relying on a battery on off switch is not a good idea u could still end up with a short between the battery switch & the batteries leaving u with no choice but to directly unhook the battery cables at the battery involved but what if u r not onboard when if it did happen

Nobody getting excited here just trying to make sure everyone understands the reason for the concept of having full protection & if u cannot afford to do it all at once wait for deals "on sale" & make it an ongoing project as the money becomes avail.
if u store the boat on the trl then u can always disconnect the batt cables @ batteries , but u r still not fully protected while on the water
Just Saying That,s All
so don,t get bent outa shape smoke a joint or something & relax
I think I might have some of my special ice cubes with some spicy clamato juice

J

I cant stress the need for full protection enough, taking precautions is imperative to stopping accidents.

I speak these sage words from life experience, after all not taking precautions is what landed me with 5 kids

Re thread hijack,
There was a 28ft sailboat moored near me one year. Started taking on water suddenly. I notified owner. Slid open main hatch, holy s*it waters over the bunks. Tons of stuff floating around. Power out of course. I grab a bucket and start bailing. Figure the problems a bad thruhull and the owner can find it quickly. When owner arrives he insists on getting a bilge pump. I've made a small amount of progress with the bucket. I figure two people, get the water down to where we can see or hear the problem. No the guy insists on going to his friends house to get a pump. I said let's just bail it out I have to be at work soon. Oh no you can leave ill be right back with the pump and a battery.
Come home from work, boats on the bottom with just the house showing. With the pump and battery still stirring there.

Ix

Ixneigh wrote:Re thread hijack,
There was a 28ft sailboat moored near me one year. Started taking on water suddenly. I notified owner. Slid open main hatch, holy s*it waters over the bunks. Tons of stuff floating around. Power out of course. I grab a bucket and start bailing. Figure the problems a bad thruhull and the owner can find it quickly. When owner arrives he insists on getting a bilge pump. I've made a small amount of progress with the bucket. I figure two people, get the water down to where we can see or hear the problem. No the guy insists on going to his friends house to get a pump. I said let's just bail it out I have to be at work soon. Oh no you can leave ill be right back with the pump and a battery.
Come home from work, boats on the bottom with just the house showing. With the pump and battery still stirring there.

Ix

When you get to this point, a pump isn't going to help. If our boats had stuffing boxes that leak or any other thru hull, it would make sense. A buddy has an I/O that was leaking. He had a bilge pump and solar panel to keep up with it. He lost a lot of sleep on cloudy days wondering if that setup was working.

A bilge pump is not a bad idea. And in BOAT's case he's making a shower sump. But don't depend on it to save you if you get a real hull breach. Especially on our boats with no thru hulls that should leak.
With that said, I remember Catigale had a leak on his X where the centerboard cable goes through. I don't know where this is. But a bilge pump might buy you some time to locate the leak if it's small like that.

I gotta say, it feels wrong to me to own a boat without a bilge pump. It seems like every boat should have one. I just can't justify installing one. Where would I put it? Too much effort.

--Russ

My bilge pump sits under the rear buck under the cockpit, fits no problems, plumbed to exit through the sink through hull with a nice big loop so I get no splash back.

In all honesty 20 minutes to fit and wire in, maybe an hour all up including plumbing, it was the easiest job I have done on the boat, you could go wold and have one each side of the ballast tank and exit the other through the sink in the head through hull, that would only take you a extra 1/2 hour.

On my launch list number one item is, Turn the bilge pump to Auto (the position it stays in when the boat is on the water) and flick it to manual for a second just to make sure its working.

Last job on the retrieve list is, Turn bilge pump switch to OFF

I have a very large bilge pump right next too the batts under the entrance ladder to the cabin on the S/B side the output hose runs aft to its own thru hull fitting mounted on the S/B transom it,s about 12" above the water line which is not an issue for that bilge pump as it can go as high as 36" for an output height I do believe
Anyway lets get back to Mark,s Mod up-grade with new progress pic,s

J

The best bilge pump is a scared man with a bucket.
Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL

Holy Cow - (Or, as the English Subtitles on Danish TV say: "Hevenly Beef!") I am hesitant to even respond to this thread anymore.

Look, the whole point of an electric bilge pump is to pump bilge water when your not aware that the water is even there. Now - WHAT circumstances would that be that there is water and you are not aware of it?

1. Your not on the boat
2. Your asleep - (and the water has not got as high as your bunk yet (yikes!)
3. The water is hiding from you (sneaky!)

That's why the electric pump has the "automatic" feature. I myself turn off the perko when I leave the boat because I do not want all the power lines energized when a shore boat smashes a hole in the hull while I'm on shore enjoying a margarita on the beach. Or when the guy next door lights off his shotgun, or the mooring breaks and I hit the rocks, or a thru hull fails, or WHATEVER. Shi. . happens - and there is no need to leave the perko on when your away EXCEPT to have the auto bilge pump on! So that is why most folks wire the electric bilge ahead of the perko. You can shut down the boat without disabling the pumps. (hull, some power boats leak ALL THE TIME - due to packing's and stuff so their bilge pumps NEVER turn off - I think the power boat guys wrote the book on bilge pumps.

Is an electric bilge pump more effective than a man with a bucket? Yes, if the man is not on board - without the man, the bucket no work. The most effective bilge pump is the whales gusher pumps with the big lever handles - they move water in bucket fulls too - but without the man - they don't work as well as the automatic pump.
(PS since the 70's Denmark has added "Hellig Ko" to their dictionary).

So, barring any more electric bilge pump scandals let's move on to an important part of MODS: wood finishing.

You guys can all make great mod parts out of mahogany and the finishing is real easy - just get the cheap high gloss west marine brand varnish at thier store and sand your wood down to about 220 grain - then on the fist coat just slop it on with anything - an old brush, sponge - rag - makes no difference because the first coat all gets sucked into the wood grain:



When that dries i will show you how to sand it and re-coat it - I will coat the piece as many at 10 times to get a finish - it just depends on how many are needed to get the finish you want - I think this one will shine up in about 4 coats - we will see.

(Pay no attention to the giant man eating arm saw in the picture - I rarely use it because it's a killer that can rip off your arms and legs).

I put a bilge pump in my boat wired ahead of the Perko (and fused). I’m really interested in your shower mod, though. If I want to get the wife to overnight on the boat, a good, private, shower is a must. Her idea of camping is a Hampton...

Glad to know that I’m not the only person who has a fear of radial arm saws.

Jimmyt wrote:I put a bilge pump in my boat wired ahead of the Perko (and fused). I’m really interested in your shower mod, though. If I want to get the wife to overnight on the boat, a good, private, shower is a must. Her idea of camping is a Hampton...

Glad to know that I’m not the only person who has a fear of radial arm saws.

Oh yeah - I'm scared of that saw for sure - I use a table saw instead and even the table saw is scary to me, but that arm saw will throw a piece of wood right thru a wall (it's done it before) and if your holding the wood when that happens say goodbye to your arm. The point of this thread is to show you guys how I form wood to make mods. It's a LOT easier to do than you think if you use my cheats.

First cheat: Use SOLID mahogany as much as possible - it's a dense wood that shaves and shapes to fine detail yet it cuts easy. It's not as stable in the weather as teak, so mahogany needs to be finished and should be used below decks.

First off - skip the big arm saws and power sprayers and other dangerous equipment - that stuff is for the pros like Captain Currie - for us regular guys just use a good hand held jig saw that can take thin blades:

You can saw the wood into approxamate shapes real easy without killing yourself.

The other cheat is shaping the wood - use a hand grinder - the cheap kind you get from Harbor Freight:



Cheap - 14.99 at Harbor 'Fright' - use a thick masonry grinding wheel and watch that thing shave down you wood like a piece of butter - you can shape the wood with a very light touch - it works great. Then, like I said above just sand to about 220 and then start finishing.

The pieces pictured in this thread will eventually be sanded to 400 - and the last coat is the ONLY coat that really counts to get the nice finish and there is a trick to applying it. I will show when I get to that point.

BOAT wrote:

Jimmyt wrote:Glad to know that I’m not the only person who has a fear of radial arm saws.

Oh yeah - I'm scared of that saw for sure - I use a table saw instead and even the table saw is scary to me, but that arm saw will throw a piece of wood right thru a wall (it's done it before) and if your holding the wood when that happens say goodbye to your arm.

Hmmmm. One of my other hobbies is restoring old machinery. Like this 1950's Delta 'Plus 10' radial arm saw with 12" negative hook angle blade, which has a third-generation 2 hp motor and blade guard (original was first gen). Negative hook angle means it won't self-feed while climb cutting, which is how crosscuts are done.





It was a mess when I got it, and was used as a cutoff saw for aluminium stock. I restored it, and added the magnetic motor control and push-button station, plus a dust collection hood behind the blade (can just see the branch duct dropping down and terminating at a blast gate, but no hood when the pics were taken) and it's got a permanent home in my shop.

Oh, and BOAT, a table saw is far more likely to kickback and punch a hole in the wall behind you (ripping), though it can happen when ripping on a RAS, too (especially if you don't use the anti-kickback fingers correctly). But anyone not comfy with any tool or machine, shouldn't use said tool or machine. Using a bandsaw for ripping is a good alternative - about the safest power tool out there for ripping solid stock. No chance of a kickback, and if you keep the upper guide just above the stock, you'd have to try to put your finger into the blade.

Yeah, the issue is indeed ripping - I'm fine with the radial arm as a simple cut off and it's really great for nipping or slotting small pieces - BUT, a person that turns that saw from front to back to side to side and then feeds a piece of wood into the side is really taking their life into their hands. The table saw seems a lot safer to me when it's time to rip a long piece of wood. I really wish I had a band saw - don't have one - that would indeed be the best way to rip.

I just might get me a band saw - any recommendations?

I am lucky that the Home Depot here in Oceanside has lots of Mahogany in the lumber yard in various thickness already ripped - all I need to do usually is chop it - when I do need to trim rip a long piece I use the table saw. I have always wondered if a band saw might be a better idea.

BOAT wrote:Yeah, the issue is indeed ripping - I'm fine with the radial arm as a simple cut off and it's really great for nipping or slotting small pieces - BUT, a person that turns that saw from front to back to side to side and then feeds a piece of wood into the side is really taking their life into their hands. The table saw seems a lot safer to me when it's time to rip a long piece of wood. I really wish I had a band saw - don't have one - that would indeed be the best way to rip.

I just might get me a band saw - any recommendations?

Yeah, they've really fallen out of favor over the decades, but at one time, they were the machine to have. Levittown in Long Island was built with lumber processed on an assembly line of DeWalt radial arm saws, right on the job site, many of them as large as 18 or 20" blade. Each one was set up for one operation only. There's a video of that floating around out there, but I couldn't find it. Even Ward Cleaver had one, as did every well-equipped home owner back in the day. I believe it was a 1950's DeWalt MB "Power Shop", which had a 9" blade and (I think) a 3/4 hp motor. Nice machine, but a bit wimpy for dados. For home shops, it was sold as the Swiss army knife of machines. Still loads of them around, too. The big ones (curved arm) are in demand from those who know . . .



But you're right - there's little reason these days to use a RAS for ripping when it's easier to use a table saw. Or a band saw, if you have a jointer or are good with a hand plane. And to that subject, the most common out there are still Delta 14" band saws, going all the way back to the 1930's, and virtually unchanged until recently.

1950's 14" Delta


But Grizzly makes decent machines these day, and Jet, Powermatic, Rikon, and the higher-end Minimax and Laguna and Agazzani European imports (just a short list). I gave my son a 10" Sears bench top, which is also marketed under different names, and he's been making furniture using it since. My late father used his Delta Homecraft 10" 'Gumby Head' from the 50's almost exclusively, even though he had a table saw.

1950's Delta Homecraft "Gumby Head" 10" (not my Dad's, but just like it)


Don't want to hijack your thread any further, though.

The problem with my saw is that it is 2.75HP with a 10 inch blade so it is WAY overpowered for a blade that small. Nothing stops the blade -

Anyways, when you sand your wood parts use 320 and the idea is to make the varnish turn into a waxy powder like this:



If you did it right when you rub off that powdery stuff it will be very smooth but will have no shiny parts.
I would get a band saw but I think this is the last boat I will ever own and I'm getting old and this boat is almost done so not sure - we'll see.

Captain Currie has all the nice stuff like you have - I'm not a pro guy - I just make stuff so I use odds and ends for tools.