What beats it?

[Tomfoolery]

HEY!! TOM!!
I WAS GOING TO SAY SOMETHING BUT I DID NOT WANT TO MAKE YOU MAD!

I WAS GOING TO SAY "HEY! HOW CAN YOU TALK ABOUT DERELICT KEEL BOATS IN YOUR MARINA WHEN THERE ARE NO KEEL BOATS!!

(But, I thought I better keep my mouth shut so you would not yell at me.)

But you're yelling at me!

Reread what I posted. Here ya go -

No derelicts in my marina, or any others around here, perhaps because they all come out of the water for the winter, whether you do it yourself or not (the marina will haul it if you don't, and send you a bill).

My last marina, in the Genesee River, had as many sailboats as power boats, if not more. Same with the others, including the yacht clubs. Can't leave them in, or they'd freeze hard and get crushed. Marina operators will haul them out in the fall, one way or another, but if you stop paying your bills, that's where they sit - on the hard. Eventually they get sold or scrapped, though I don't know what the legal process is, especially when they're not in the water.

Someday I want to do the Erie Canal and I did not want you to be mad at me when I needed your help.

I don't get mad. Or even. That's not what I come here for. So get in that Sprinter of yours, hook up the boat, and drive to Erie, PA. See you when you get to Fairport, NY.

[sailboatmike]

Hey Boat

I think in some way we are kindred spirits, both grumpy old men

Best part is I like being grumpy and being old (well not really old but old enough) just gives me the legitimate excuse to grumpy

It seems that the keel boat market is up and down like a yoyo, here they cant give the things away, many on the market for less than $5,000 Au and still no buyers, at my previous club there was many keelers on swing moorings that had not moved for at least the 6 years I was a member,

I guess having a winter haul out has its advantages, derelicts get put up on the hard and stay there

[BOAT]

The keel boat market seems to be always down over here.

Up and down keel market? I guess in New York, but as many here have already mentioned and I can tell you is very much a fact over here that the old 70's and 80's keel boats over here under 40 feet go for peanuts - the normal price for a sailboat that old over here is under 10 grand and often as low as 3 grand. A lot of them are donated for charity because they are worth more as tax write off then what they can sell for. Again, I'm talking So Cal - boats are a dime a dozen here. Slips are hard to get too.

The idea of a person getting half the purchase price on a MAC is pretty much the worst case I have heard here so far - that sort of backs up my thoughts that the MAC hybrids still fetch a lot more of their purchase price than any keel boat.

[Seapup]

The idea of a person getting half the purchase price on a MAC is pretty much the worst case I have heard here so far - that sort of backs up my thoughts that the MAC hybrids still fetch a lot more of their purchase price than any keel boat.

I think thats as much to do with the age as anything, the oldest hybrids are only around 20 years old. Pretty much any keelboat of the same age as a mac
or goes for decent money. If anything the few other trailerable models of similar size all seem to hold their values better than the macs.

1. If your using a slip, then your losing the purpose of the boat:

Utter Rubbish


Why on earth would you buy basically the largest trailerable cabin sailboat out there for daysailing


Would you buy a stretch limo to enjoy a sunday drive through the mountains


Trailer a camper across town after work to sit under the awning and watch the sunset


Maybe a box van with picnic table to set up for a brunch


Nay! Unless you are in a slip then your losing the purpose of the boat

I like the idea that I can trailer down south

I think the dream is a big part of any sailor no matter the boat. I would be willing to bet there are more trailerboats than non sitting idle tucked away fueled by dreams.

[sailboatmike]

Any keel boat here as old as my 1995 X goes for a lot less than my Mac would bring.

I just reinsured my X for $35,000 which is about the going price, a 20 year old keeler tha originally cost $200k 20 years ago goes for far less, thats if they can sell them

[Baha]

Yachts are kind of like houses...they are worth what someone will pay for them.

Here in the UK, you can always find a bargain if you look hard enough. You can also find lots of overpriced boats. I paid top dollar for my but, apart from the genoa (which was shot) the boat was in great shape, and already had all the toys I needed (plotter, VHF, Autopilot, shore power, all the genoa cars, kite,etc. ), and very little that I didn't need.

I do think this is the best place to buy a "blue water" yacht. If I would buy another mono, it would be something made here, around 32-36', with bilge keels. I could get a Westerly or similar for way under $30,000. I doubt if I will though, and am seriously considering shipping my Mac to the US when I retire. I have it the way I want it.

[Neo]

Is my area the is a 36ft'er that's never moves out of it's marina berth and has been for sale for over 3 years!!!

[Orkia]

For all you X and M owners, the largest cost of the Mac is the motor. You can still get the purist S and D for much less. One of the main factors in the lower cost of the S & D is the motor.

[BOAT]

For all you X and M owners, the largest cost of the Mac is the motor. You can still get the purist S and D for much less. One of the main factors in the lower cost of the S & D is the motor.

That seems to also be why all the old keel boats are so cheap: old diesel engine problems. There are tons of keel boats in the marinas with sketchy diesel motors that require major overhaul and that really drives down the prices on those boats big time. The repair to the engine is often worth more than the boat.

Without a working and reliable diesel engine a keel boat is WORTHLESS.

Now, the smaller keel boats with the transom out boards and so forth seem to fare better but even in those the motor does not factor in as much to resale value because the outboard motors you find on keel boats tend to be small and not real expensive.

Still, a 26 foot keel boat sitting in the slip that is the same age as any MAC M boat sitting on the trailer is a comparison I think we all know the answer to:

The MAC will always hold closer to it's original purchase price at resale than the keel boat will.

The 26' MAC has better resale than any 26' keel boat.

[Tomfoolery]

For all you X and M owners, the largest cost of the Mac is the motor. You can still get the purist S and D for much less. One of the main factors in the lower cost of the S & D is the motor.

That seems to also be why all the old keel boats are so cheap: old diesel engine problems. There are tons of keel boats in the marinas with sketchy diesel motors that require major overhaul and that really drives down the prices on those boats big time. The repair to the engine is often worth more than the boat.

Universal diesels from back-when don't seem to be as readily repairable as the Yanmars that sort of took over that market. I don't know about Atomic 4 gasoline engines, but I wouldn't touch one. So I could see a boat with a Universal or Atomic 4 having a lower resale value than one with a Yanmar or Lehman diesel, even adjusted for vintage.

[BOAT]

Okay, so far we have two facts we can state categorically:

1. The best shallow water sailboat available is the MAC hybrids.
2. The best resale value for 26ft sailboats is the MAC M boat.

Anyone able to pick that apart?

[Seapup]

Okay, so far we have two facts we can state categorically:

1. The best shallow water sailboat available is the MAC hybrids.
2. The best resale value for 26ft sailboats is the MAC M boat.

Anyone able to pick that apart?

Sure -

1.Any daggerboard catamaran. (resale value though...??? not sure why anyone would want a catamaran anyway )

2. Take a pick of almost any would be a shorter list. J80, seward 26? Basically any 2003 up boat I can find is more than 50% the original list.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... elected=-1

What was the actual cost of a new M with motor? Whats are the cheapest selling for these days? What are the actual sold listings of macgregors on ebay showing actual sales prices at?

I know I bought my 2002 in 2010 for 9k. The owner (wife) clearly did not feel it was the best investment her husband had made when she signed the title and helped me load the still sealed sails and supplies from the garage into the boat.

[Neo]

Universal diesels from back-when don't seem to be as readily repairable as the Yanmars that sort of took over that market. I don't know about Atomic 4 gasoline engines, but I wouldn't touch one. So I could see a boat with a Universal or Atomic 4 having a lower resale value than one with a Yanmar or Lehman diesel, even adjusted for vintage.

"Universal" Is that bands like Volvo or is "Universal" the manufacture?
I don't mind it hanging off the stern but I wouldn't have a gasoline engine inside my yacht for all the tea in china!!
Diesels might be smelly but it's sooooo much safer than gasoline .... as I'm sure you know Tom

I know I bought my 2002 in 2010 for 9k. The owner (wife) clearly did not feel it was the best investment her husband had made when she signed the title and helped me load the still sealed sails and supplies from the garage into the boat.

OMG....You bought an for AU$9k!!!!!

[Tomfoolery]

Universal diesels from back-when don't seem to be as readily repairable as the Yanmars that sort of took over that market. I don't know about Atomic 4 gasoline engines, but I wouldn't touch one. So I could see a boat with a Universal or Atomic 4 having a lower resale value than one with a Yanmar or Lehman diesel, even adjusted for vintage.

"Universal" Is that b[r]ands like Volvo or is "Universal" the manufacture/

Universal the brand. Usually painted gold, making them easy to recognize from a distance, though of course, any engine can be repainted. This one has a gear-driven raw water pump and fresh water cooling (like my Yanmar did - nice ).

Diesels might be smelly but it's sooooo much safer than gasoline .... as I'm sure you know Tom

My Hunter once had an injector problem, and it made the stern berth, the captain's quarters, unlivable. Took a lot of effort to clean that engine until it wasn't smelly back there. Not good.

[sailboatmike]

Even in the USA $9k for a X would be by far the exception rather than the rule.

Lets not forget they didnt have to put up with importers buying up second hand boats cheap in the USA and importing them then wacking on a nice margin for themselves.

I know my boat was a USA delivery that was imported second hand, the PO in Australia paid $46,000 for it when it was 10 years old.

One could say that they dont hold their value in Australia as well as I paid $20k for mine BUT the motor was iffy at the best, it was in rough condition and the bloke had to sell quickly for personal reasons.

Now with a newish 75Hp motor, LOTS of cleaning and fixing and a new set of sails I have just reinsured it for $35k agreed value as I figure it would cost me at least that to replace if not slightly more