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On top is the water line of a C27 at 90 degree heel angle - on the bottom is the waterline of the M boat at 90 degree heel angel.
Which boat would you want to be in at 90 degrees??

BOAT wrote: On top is the water line of a C27 at 90 degree heel angle - on the bottom is the waterline of the M boat at 90 degree heel angel.

I knew Macs floated high, but they should get the nickname pingpong ball!



And don't forget that, with an open transom, it is literally impossible to swamp the cockpit of an X or M. The water flows out as fast as it can flow in. Part of the safety design.

Thats as long as you have your storm boards in on the X or you get a cabin full of water, I recommend making a 1/3 height storm board to keep in place when sailing if its a bit rough to ensure that your dont get wet feet in the cabin if you take a wave into the cockpit

sailboatmike wrote:Thats as long as you have your storm boards in on the X or you get a cabin full of water, I recommend making a 1/3 height storm board to keep in place when sailing if its a bit rough to ensure that your dont get wet feet in the cabin if you take a wave into the cockpit

Yeah. I replaced the giant awkward one-piece 'glass hatch with a lighter, two-piece, mahogany hatch.

But I gotta tell ya, nuthin alarms the Admiral more in a fresh breeze and choppy waters than geting up from the helm and slipping the lower hatch board in, no matter how non-chalant you are about it.m

So I'll ask for us 's with Billy Boxes.

Do you think that adds a lot of risk? We can't block out water from a knock down as effectively?

Its not a matter of stopping it all, its just a matter of stopping the water surge if it comes in the cockpit, The M has the bridge deck or step up before you can step down to the cabin which I think is a improvement.

If your sailing partner gets concerned if you get up and put the storm board in, then just put it in as a matter of course when you leave the dock, they will soon get used to it, much like we have laws about wearing a lifejacket is compulsory after sunset here if your on deck, the chances of you going overboard are the same, its just an extra precaution

Sailing with my brother yesterday, me on his Cat 27 and me on my Mac 26D....first leg out, I smoked him.

While sailing side-by-side on the leg to the dock, he was telling a story from two years ago where he said he saw a Mac 26 flip. Didn't know that could happen on a lake.

Okay Curwen, ya got me. What a hook post . I gotta know, who was in which boat and can you fill in more details about the Mac flipping on a lake.

Ken

It was probably @Highlander, driving his Mac like a jetski, doing a barrel roll on the wake of a passing stinkpot.

Curwen wrote:Sailing with my brother yesterday, me on his Cat 27 and me on my Mac 26D....first leg out, I smoked him.

While sailing side-by-side on the leg to the dock, he was telling a story from two years ago where he said he saw a Mac 26 flip. Didn't know that could happen on a lake.

I have a couple of probable explanations for a Mac "Flipping"

1) It didnt happen and he thought he would regurgitate some rubbish he heard on read on a forum to make up for being smoked

2) A friend of a mates, best friends, Uncles. cousin, brothers, sisters in laws, third cousin told him it happened, Its standard practice for people to claim to be eye witnesses to events that they didnt, if all the people that claim to be in Dallas the day JFK got shot were actually there, 5 million people would of been at the parade and certainly well over a million at Woodstock

3) I got knocked flat (define flipping) - The Rear Commodore at our club got flattened a few months ago and that was in a 35 foot full keel boat that is a renown world cruiser design , when a 45knt squall hit and they had full sail up, it happens

Okay Curwen, ya got me. What a hook post . I gotta know, who was in which boat and can you fill in more details about the Mac flipping on a lake.

Ken

I hate to add to the urban legend stuff, so here is the conversation as it happened...My brother and I were sailing on the return leg side-by-side on Saturday when he pops out with....

"I've always been impressed with the Macs. Two years ago we were at the Utah Lake Regatta , the first part of the race there wasn't much wind, but about halfway through the first leg of the long race a front came in and the wind kicked up. He said this Mac 26 kept up with his Cat 27 until the first turn and on that first turn they they were turning when a strong gust came and flattened the Mac."

Now he was only three beers into his sail, so I tend to believe him. I do know a couple of other sailors who could have been at that regatta so I will have to confirm it with one of them.

And if the water level is like it is now, there is a great chance he wasn't sailing with dagger or swing all the way down because Utah lake is a very shallow lake and would be running the risk of smacking the keel on the bottom.

Curwen wrote:

Okay Curwen, ya got me. What a hook post . I gotta know, who was in which boat and can you fill in more details about the Mac flipping on a lake.

Ken

I hate to add to the urban legend stuff, so here is the conversation as it happened...My brother and I were sailing on the return leg side-by-side on Saturday when he pops out with....

"I've always been impressed with the Macs. Two years ago we were at the Utah Lake Regatta , the first part of the race there wasn't much wind, but about halfway through the first leg of the long race a front came in and the wind kicked up. He said this Mac 26 kept up with his Cat 27 until the first turn and on that first turn they they were turning when a strong gust came and flattened the Mac."

Now he was only three beers into his sail, so I tend to believe him. I do know a couple of other sailors who could have been at that regatta so I will have to confirm it with one of them.

And if the water level is like it is now, there is a great chance he wasn't sailing with dagger or swing all the way down because Utah lake is a very shallow lake and would be running the risk of smacking the keel on the bottom.

Lot's of problems with this post:
The boat heels LESS with less daggerboad - not more. If the boat gets a gust with no board down is skids sideways more and heels less.
You can't knock the M boat down with wind alone - it's impossible - and since it was a lake we know there were no swells or waves so it sounds like the story is crap.
If it were an X boat it may have been a boat with no ballast in it coming about - but even the X boat with no permanent ballast will recover.
It all sounds pretty shaky to me.

I think it's also important to remember that 'knocked down' to a person who's only known traditional boats is a completely different ballpark than being 'knocked down' for a Mac / water ballasted sailor. Most would think a Mac were in trouble if they saw one on the water heeled at 45 degrees plus. That is until they saw the sh*t eating grin on the captain but to a passerby it would look interesting to say the least.

That's probably part of the problem with 99% of the stories out there - everyone seems to have their own idea of what a "knockdown" is.

On a traditional keelboat, if the boat stops dead in of the water on it's side that is called a "knockdown" - it's a very dangerous condition for a keelboat because it usually includes swamping of the cockpit and sometimes water in the cabin too, but not always. Most folks in the racing community say "knockdown" if a hard over it stops the boat in it's tracks. When it happens (I have been there a few times) it's like time stands still because the boat does not just pop right back up like you would think - every keelboat I was ever on that had a knockdown tipped over in a rather orderly fashion, stopping dead in the water, and then you wait for what seems like long agonizing minutes for the boat to slowly start turning back upright - in reality it happens in seconds but it seems like an eternity. I have seen guys jump off after a knockdown because they thought the boat was going down. The captain that knows better will tell the crew to stand firm and wait for the boat to right itself. Of the 4 or 5 times I have experienced it it was always on a larger boat where the person on the helm is not the person on the sheets and it was because of a jammed sheet. The helmsman would hold his course unknowing that the grinder could not release one of the sheets or the helmsman may have been unable to turn upwind because of a boat on his side or a possible barging incident - it's something you actually try to force you opponent to do in a race. You try to get him to fall off and tack behind your stern so you can over take him. If he is stubborn and will not turn you can force him to turn against the wind thus the need to suddenly let out the sheets.

On the M boat the wind will fall out of the sails before that happens - even if the sheet is jammed because M boats do not stop dead in the water when they are heeled over - they just keep right on sailing.

The M boat can sail on it's side without getting wet.

As a 222 owner, are knock-down characteristics similar?