newbie wondering if a macgregor 26x or m is right choice

[Ixneigh]

That video was not taken in 45 mph winds.
In only 30 mph of wind the guy holding the camera would be drenched with spray each time the bow hit a wave.
There would also be more wind driven foam and whitecaps.
The boats not even moving that well. He's got his main sheeted too tight. A lot of heeling does not equate lots of wind in these boats. A double reefed main would get her back on her feet and would be best here.
My boat starts to get wet, the dogs start sliding off the seats, and I start to wonder wtf I am out here, in around a real 25 mph of wind, in 2-3 waves. My boat will be going faster the the one in the clip. She'll have a double reefed main and the factory hank on jib. Spray will be coming all the way back to the cockpit on occasion.
In 30 mph the most I've had the boat out in, it's absolutely wtf are we out here. The dogs are hiding in their cockpit locker. I've still got the reefed main, but gone down to a small spitfire jib and you can forget about making any ground to weather. Off the wind however the boats better. Downwind you'll be doing six- seven knots even eight maybe. That's when you start looking at those rudders because you know if the boat rounds up she'll be on her side instantly.
Ix

[Catigale]

wonder about its offshore capabilities

You should know that I regularly catch a fair amount of criticism on this forum for my guardedness concerning taking the X's and M's deep into blue water trips. Several good sailors and their MacGregors have made the trip from Florida to the Bahamas. You can search for those threads and see what they have experienced. I think it is important to remember that neither of these boats were designed for off shore blue water trips. The fact that they have video out in some pretty rough stuff was intended to show that the boats were well built for the coastal and inland lake waters and could handle whatever might come up in those venues. You can find threads in this forum that shows that experienced sailors have run into some pretty hairy situations even on inland lakes and coastal cruising trips. I, for one, found Tampa Bay too tough to take on in 20 knot winds and the 6-8 ft swells they generated. And I absolutely do not think substantial trips should be made when there is a firm timeline. That is the easiest way to get into trouble. The fact that these boats are trailerable creates a huge option to take them to really neat places to sail. There have to be really nice places to build memories with kids that don't require questionable risks. For example, the large engine makes river cruising and intracoastal waterway trips very feasible. I have taken my X all the way from Sanford to Jax and back on the St. Johns. Many wonderful memories along that "Old Florida" route. There IS a learning curve to these boats, both in the sailing mode and in the motoring mode. I suggest you take it slow and become familiar with your new MacGregor before undertaking any ambitious journey, especially with the kids. This is one voice of 11 years X ownership, 55 years sailing with nine boats including one Newport-Bermuda race, and a "few" years in the Navy. Now, sit back and watch the sparks fly! But seriously, hope you find a good X or M, take it slow, and realize your dreams.

I've always found Herschel's posts informative and intelligent. The crowd that says , a 6 foot boat has made it across the Atlantic , ergo a Mac is safe" aren't in that class.

[dlandersson]

I'm wondering too.

My boat starts to get wet, the dogs start sliding off the seats, and I start to wonder wtf I am out here, in around a real 25 mph of wind, in 2-3 waves.

[BOAT]

Yeah, the thing is that the boat can be put on a trailer and that sort of forces the design away from ocean crossing boats.

The main difference between sailing coastal and crossing oceans is the ability of the boat to survive the inevitable storm that you will hit guaranteed crossing an ocean. It's really rare to cross any ocean without hitting at least one storm. On any given day just go to a weather map and look at a global satellite picture of the pacific, or the Atlantic. Just do that day after day after day. I dare you to find ONE day when it's clear all the way across any ocean. And the problem is that it's going to take you three weeks to cross that ocean so you need THREE WEEKS of clear weather!! That's near impossible. The thing about storms is that they turn the boat on it's side guaranteed, and often turn the boat upside down.

I think the MAC could take a knock down or even a turtle but I don't think the RIGGING could take it. I suppose you could RIG a MAC to take it but then it will be a huge hassle to TRAILER the boat!

The bottom line always comes back to the same thing - the TRAILER - that's the big thing that divides the boat from other boats.

There are lots of smaller boats that can cross the oceans but they are keel boats that can't go on a trailer and take DAYS to rig - not 45 minutes.

[yukonbob]

I'm wondering too.

My boat starts to get wet, the dogs start sliding off the seats, and I start to wonder wtf I am out here, in around a real 25 mph of wind, in 2-3 waves.

Same here. If we have the choice to stay in harbour we'll wait it out, but its good to know the boat can take much more. Anything past the above isn't fun anymore and I always start wondering whats gonna break when I least expect it. I inspect every year and no apparent damage to date. Hope it keeps up.

[BOAT]

So far i have found the 26M to be a lot more robust than I expected it to be.

[dlandersson]

Nice point. When I can I try to replace things (lines, tires, etc) before the theoretical "used up" point. No fun (esp. with kids) fixing stuff on the water.

... I always start wondering whats gonna break when I least expect it. I inspect every year and no apparent damage to date. Hope it keeps up.

[mastreb]

Since this is a "two cents" thread I'll add my two sense.

I concur with what others have said: These boats can handle 6-8' swells no problem, and that's beyond the comfort level of even the saltiest of us here. I've done it and it's exhausting. Impossible to sail in, but the big motors make these sea states much more tolerable because you can use the throttle to keep yourself in wave troughs by matching speed and to the degree possible direction. Keelboats in these waves are far more problematic than an X or an M because they can't do that. Like all west-coasters I'm offshore quite a bit and have no discomfort with being out 40 or 50 miles in very deep water. These boats can run for cover and be in harbor faster than a storm could possibly come upon you at those distances. Just make sure you're traveling with a full tank of gas and a reliable motor, and if you think you should take cover you should definitely take cover.

The boat's mathematically largest safe swell is 8' based on the 1/3 of waterline rule. Beyond that, the boat can be rolled by a broaching wave and is not safe. That's why these boats are not CE A (all ocean) or B (Offshore) rated, but C (coastal) 6 (persons) D (protected waters) 6.

Swing keel for skinny water is a good idea, but don't fear the daggerboard either. I've run aground multiple times with no issues. The daggerboard can handle hitting sand or mud bottoms at 7 knots or below with no damage other than tossing things around in the cockpit. People who break daggerboards break them on rocks, and even then a new daggerboard is only $500. Given how much easier they are to replace, I think the M boats will last longer than the X boats in ultimate useful lifetime because it's the maintenance and complexity of swing keels that ends the life of these boats. I'd say a swing keel is a 25 year boat whereas the daggerboard hulls may go 40. Ultimately that lifetime creates a higher residual value for these boats with already very high residual value compared to any keelboat.

Corsairs/Farriers are not offshore boats. I've crewed on one out of Oceanside, and they're hellish in anything but flat water. Beyond 2'..3' trimarans get very uncomfortable very quickly, with a lot of slamming side-to-side instead of rolling. I honestly don't know how people do ocean crossings in the big cats and tri's in any kind of weather. Also the cockpit is uselessly small if you have any kind of family. Very hard to get on and off of a trailer unless you've got a protected dock directly next to the ramp and nobody else buzzing around. Basically they're race toys--very fast thought.

Can't go wrong with either boat, and the differences between them are less than the differences between any other boat and a MacGregor.

Matt

[BOAT]

Yup, if yer gonna cross the ocean give me a 70 foot boat that is long and low in the water and as skinny as a pencil and I'll give you a very comfortable ride in any kind of sea.

Matt also brings up an excellent point on the daggerboard - it's SUPER easy to remove - I take mine out all the time to inspect it and do minor repairs. I owned a boat with a swing keel and I can tell you the dagger board is a huge advantage over a swing keel for maintenance.

[bobbob]

Just curious - Agreed that the M daggerboard is easier to maintain than the X center board. That being said, ultimately isn't the center board just as repairable/replaceable (albeit with more difficulty)? I don't see anything in the mechanism that, upon failure, would cause the boat to become unrepairable (thus ending the useful life of the boat).

[BOAT]

A missing or damaged dagger board on a boat like the M is only a small hit of 400 dollars on the price when you go to sell it because there is no labor at all in installing a new daggerboard. You just slide it right into the hole on the top of the boat and your done. The M daggerboard does not require you to go under the boat to replace it (A HUGE feature).

A swing keel centerboard is a much bigger issue. The labor to jack up the X boat, pull out the old keel, and replace it with a new one is going to cost more than the actual keel. Also, there is the cable and winch mechanism to deal with - that all needs to be repaired too. If you selling your X boat and the swing keel is busted your selling price is going to take a huge hit to the tune of over a thousand dollars. It's a lot more expense to fix one.

They both have their advantages but on the maintenance side the daggerboard is far superior and less costly.

[Tomfoolery]

A swing keel centerboard is a much bigger issue. The labor to jack up the X boat, pull out the old keel, and replace it with a new one is going to cost more than the actual keel. Also, there is the cable and winch mechanism to deal with - that all needs to be repaired too. If you selling your X boat and the swing keel is busted your selling price is going to take a huge hit to the tune of over a thousand dollars. It's a lot more expense to fix one.

That sounds like the experience dealing with a Coastal Recreation (Aquarius, Balboa, Ensinada, La Paz) boat, especially the Balboa 26, where I believe the hinge pin is glassed in.

The CB comes out in less than 15 minutes, without jacking. Just back the nut off the hanger, and the front/top of the CB lowers out with the control line. It's light, and can be supported with one hand. I had to remove mine when the Mac Bump® was a bit too aggressive and I hadn't tightened the CB line when loading the boat, so the rear/bottom had gotten in front of the bunk. Took no time to drop it, and I replaced the line while I was there, globbed on some sealant, pushed it back up, and ran the nut down. Very easy with two people.

Oh, and there is no winch. It's pulled up by hand, and it's easy even then.

Just sayin'.

[BOAT]

The X has better interior room because of the M daggerboard trunk.

[dlandersson]

Hmmm... have we wandered a tad off topic?

[BOAT]

Yes, sorry. I will edit that