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Yeah, I know what you mean - the smell is hard to wash off if you get it on your hands. That means it has been absorbed into the skin and the only way to get it out is to “dilute” it back out by soap or solvent (alcohol?) washing.

And if it’s absorbed into the skin, then it’s also been absorbed into your bloodstream, and is carried to the rest of your body until it’s broken down and eliminated (liver). Until that happens, you’ve got toxic compounds, classed as known carcinogens (benzene etc), coursing through your veins. I hate it when that happens!

Propane, as mentioned above, is non-toxic, but a high volume confined will displace oxygen and so interfere with breathing. And to be clear, only a malfunctioning heater that is vented to the exterior, using any type of fuel, will produce any moisture inside. Moisture is produced inside by heaters that release the products of combustion inside, ie. those without a "chimney" or vent.

I haven’t had to heat the Mac yet, but I’ve used an alcohol burner (Gloy’s Boat Heat Pal) in my distant camping past to pre-warm the tent for about an hour before going to bed. (In a somewhat similar manner to your suggestion, boaterjen).

It completely dries out everything in the tent, makes the sleeping bags warm, and so it’s very comfortable for sleeping when it’s chilly or dewey out. It got turned off when we went into the tent, so asphyxiation was no concern (tents are inherently "leaky"). It also made it easier for me to convince the Admiral to consider some occasional camping (a while ago).

- B.

seahouse wrote:it easier for me to convince the Admiral to consider some occasional camping (a while ago).
- B.

Hey Bri! This is why I eventually gravitated to the Mac. Normally those 'convincements' to keep camping came from the Admiral, and the response that "it was gettin too damn cold" were simply answered with - more blankets!, more cuddlin!
Yes, that was a long while ago....

Ross

Crikey wrote:Yes, that was a long while ago....

Married 25 years two months ago. Not as much cuddlin' these days. Maybe I should try some camping.

Well first of since Ruth and I have only been married a few years so the cuddling is still working great.

We have been out a number of days with low 30 deg. nights with water freezing in the cockpit and I don't think I'd want a dedicated heating system. I guess one advantage to the boats before the X and M is that the interiors are smaller and heat easier. It it is real cold we leave the pop-top down as we are sitting anyway. We put water on the propane stove for coffee and open the companion way and prop one edge of the pop-top up with a short piece of 2 X 4 for ventilation and the cabin is warm in a few minutes.

We were going to buy a Mister Buddy but bought...



...the Little Buddy instead as it takes up less space. We have only used it a couple times for less than 15 minutes each time. I can't image needing much more. There again we have some ventilation and would never use any of these while sleeping.

I guess if you were sailing in daytime temps in the 30's and nighttime in the 20's then this would be a problem otherwise I'd think you would be spending the days in the cockpit and the nights below. Ruth is a California girl, but now is well acquainted with long underwear for daytime use.

I can't see using electricity unless you have shore power. We have the 12 volt/110 volt elect. blankets that go under you, not over you and they work very well, but there again use too much elect. if you use them all night. I tried them in our teardrop trailer and they would drain a single battery overnight. We now use them in the bedroom at home and just turn them on for a few minutes to pre-heat the bed, but have them off during the night. If you did that they would work. We have enough solar to also use them on the boat all night, but then wouldn't have enough for the fridge and computer so that isn't going to happen.

Solution is a Mister or Little Buddy morning/evening and down blankets at night with the cuddling (less clothing increases the benefits ). I proposed to Ruth under these conditions....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... 10-15.html

,

Sum

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"Mister or Little Buddy morning/evening and down blankets at night with the cuddling"

I've heard it called many things before - but Mr Buddy, never!

These kinds of threads keep coming back to storage batteries - or the lack thereof.

I read it that he proposed with Little Buddy!

Thank you for including a picture when you were talking about warming up little buddy as you were cuddling. Somewhat damaged/defective minds such as mine could have gone somewhere else

Hi

I noted that the Wallas 800 with blower works quite well on the X.

I like the idea of Kerosene (have a big tank in my garden)

The 'flexible?' exhaust pipe that they sell can be used up to 5 meters. So can it be coiled perhaps?

Don't want to go out an buy this to find it does not work!

Gerard

Oops forgot, I have a 26M

I currently have a variety of heating devices: 600w/240v oil filled electric heater, 600w dehumidifier, Coleman Petrol (gas) lantern (using my CO2 detector of course), + Small propane stove. None of which are perfect.

Gerard

Yeah, used to use these in our M60A1's (tanks) and M113's (APC's). Would keep us nice and warm with no drain on the batteries.

The best and only true heat for the mac is to haul it south and after launching head farther south.

Mikex wrote:Hi guys,
We've just purchased a 2003 MacGregor 26X and live in British Columbia, and we're planning a list of modifications to the boat, one of which is to add heat (due to where we live). My question: is Espar forced air heating the way to go, or are there better options out there for up north West Coast sailing?

Thanks, Mike

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but for the last 3 seasons here in beautiful B.C. we have barely had a 60 day summer. There has been a distinct climate change here for the worse, summers just aren't what we used to get. I remember slipping my boat for 4-6 months of the year and having a long season, but not any more.
My wife and I are fair weather sailors and if it is not warm enough to sleep on the boat overnight then we do not go on overnight trips. You won't need heat for day sailing, just dress warmer, it is no big deal and even over the September labour day weekend at Sucia it is not so cold as to warrant a heater but I do have one of those portable alcohol Heat Pal heaters. Your overnight trips will likely only be during the warmer months so you might want to hold off on the heater for your first season and get a better feel for how you will use your boat during the first year of ownership.
There is a MacGregor club here in B.C. called MYCBC.CA , check out the website, it is a great club and there is a Vancouver Island chapter with a few members involved, you can get some great first hand advice plus you can have a look at a few of the heating solutions already installed at one of the events. There is a Regatta first weekend of May in Blaine Harbour and a Rendezvous on Bowen Island in June plus a club trip to Ganges on SaltSpring, July long weekend. Check out the event calendar on the website. They are always looking for new members.

Whipsyjac wrote:I don't have heat yet, and the condensation in the morning on our mid September Sail was unbelievable.

Origo makes a heater/stove which will burn about 8hrs on a fill, alcohol is cheap and clean but still makes Carbon Monoxide, and this super simple device still costs over $200.http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... sNum=50671 The customer review claims no CO but somehow I doubt that.

I may experiment with electric heat, I bought 2 6volt batts for house power, if I add a couple solar panels, it could be a good solution. There was a ceramic heater on West Marine's site that's relatively efficient for under $100. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... sNum=50671

Maybe I'll think of something revolutionary myself(it'll probably be the most expensive and ugliest heater ever! )

Willy

Alcohol does not create CO, it creates CO2 and H2O. CO2 is still dangerous in an enclosed cabin as is anything that uses O2, so any heater you have inside must draw air from and vent to outdoors in order to be safe in my opinion. Also, various denaturing agents may create a small amount of CO upon combustion, depending on what they are. Naptha is commonly used in denatured alcohol and it does create a small amount of CO.

Id be thinking about one type of fuel source and which direction you plan to go in the future…if you have a propane (mounted?) cook stove then that would be my first choice for heat. Too many fuel types on board is annoying and potentially dangerous. The propane vent on our heater is only 3/4 inch dia through the cabin top. Ours also doesn't require power at all, and we use a eco fan(powerless) to move the air with a 12v to really move it around. Our boating season last from begging of April to end of Oct in Alaska. A 5lb tank lasts about four or five days on high for the first couple of hours then low 24 hours. Propane can be hard to find if you port hop a lot, but everywhere does seem to have single pound disposable tanks as a last resort. Most real systems can be pricey, but you'll only have to do it once.

Under ideal conditions the products of combustion, or oxidation, (of any fuel) are carbon dioxide (CO2) and water, and sometimes other by-products from impurities. If insufficient oxygen is present, for whatever reason, carbon monoxide (CO) gets produced along with the CO2. In a partially or fully enclosed space oxygen will be at least somewhat depleted, so the efficiency of combustion will drop and CO will be produced.

Impurities in various fuels (some are “purer” than others) put out hydrocarbons and who knows what else when burned, so ventilation is important all around.

-B.

Modern auto engines are so efficient at combustion that they put out so little CO that it is not possible to die from CO poisoning in an enclosed garage. Many have tried. Asphyxiation from lack of oxygen will happen before it does. Note though, that I am not speaking from personal experience.