MacGregorSailors.com

Catigale wrote: What are the odds of being killed by a falling vending machine btw?

" Your odds: 1 in 200,000,000 million of being killed by a vending machine"



Why don't you guys just ask me when you have questions like this Get it from the horse's whatever:

Odds of being killed by a falling vending machine:

50/50 - - either it happens or it doesn't

Rick

Strange. I have a personal acquaintance who was attacked and nearly killed by a shark, another acquaintance who had a fire on his aircraft while it was being refueled (it was extinguished with a fire extinguisher - no damage). So I suspect my chances of being killed by a vending machine must be pretty low. Sort of like the theory of the low probability that there will be two bombs on an airplane.
Or as Joe Garagiola says, " Statistics are like a lamp post for a drunk."

Back to the topic of static spark and plastic fuel cans and carrying fuel cans to the boat versus pumping directly from a fuel pump.

I have heard from years of Air Force Safety Briefs that when filling 5-gal fuel containers...even plastic ones...that you should set the container on the ground and not let it sit in the back of the truck or the trunk of a car. I have even seen a video of a truck catching fire at an Air Force Base gas station from a guy filling his 5-gal tanks which he left in the back of his truck.

HOWEVER, I always thought the issue was static from cars and possibly static from high pressure gasoline coming out of the nozzle...I am pretty sure I have been told when using a gas pump you should ensure the nozzle is touching the sides of your tank's neck while the gas is flowing out at high pressure.

How much static is there when the boat is in the water and you are pouring at very low pressure from a 5-gal plastic tank into a 12-gal plastic tank. Not much me thinks...but I am no engineer.

I have never felt static electricity anywhere on my boat when on the water. But on my car I get a zap almost every time I get out of the car.

Just another thought...

Cheers,
Jim

"lies, damn lies, and statistics" - Disraeli(?)

It is incongruous when the odds of getting hit by lightning are compared to the odds of winning a lottery. Fact is, one can make one's getting hit by lightning a certainty. One cannot make one's winning the lottery a certainty (for the most part).

This is a very pertinent comparison here regarding the gas can issue. Pertinent because with a little applied knowledge and a philosophy of self-determination you can take control and make an unfortunate circumstance (likely or unlikely as it may be) less likely to happen to you. I would hazard a guess that none of these unfortunate souls that were injured had even considered such a thing could happen, or if they had they had passed it off as an old wive's tale.

The idea of the game is not to make it happen to someone else, the object is to make it not happen to you. So in those situations where that's easy to do, why would you not play it safe?

If you use a vending machine with some care, you won't get hurt. If you're careless the odds are much better you'll get hurt.

I think the instinct for survival and self-preservation is a virtuous characteristic in humans. So why be careless?

Oh silly me!

I missed the point that if you get hurt by a vending machine you can sue and that might be about the same as winning the lottery

What a great forum this has been! Knowledge and caution always prevail......

(Sorry - couldn't resist this!)

http://youtu.be/pN-axvzx3D8

Ross

Hey Crikey!

Great link - I was a little kid when I last saw that and I still remember that part of the movie.

Interestingly that same page had this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVzpV3V_ ... re=related

Which is a very dramatic illustration of the triboelectric effect. Simple static electricity continuously being generated from the friction of rubbing against air (and water) molecules. Also note that the voltage potential, as great as it was, was from two planes that were BOTH generating a charge, so the voltage of the two planes relative to each other would have been much less than the voltage to, say, a ground.

Clearly, when they touched, the potential difference between them became zero and fueling began. (Hmmm - just like putting your gas can on the ground)!

I don't believe the crew is strictly correct in calling this St. Elmo's fire. St. Elmo's fire is an ionizing glow where plasma is more prominent, whereas this is more of a static electric discharge without the plasma. Although it is hard to tell- the video is not clear and there is lens flare.

- B.

c130king wrote: ...
I have never felt static electricity anywhere on my boat when on the water. But on my car I get a zap almost every time I get out of the car.

Jim

I've been zapped by static electricity so strong that I could not put my bare hand on the steering wheel or touch any metal stanchions or lifelines. The static sparks were strong and thick, and they stung. Once was out on the water and the other occasion was during setup near the dock on land. On both occasions, there was an ominously dark cloud passing by directly overhead. There was also lightning in the surrouding area, but not from this particular cloud.

Phil M

Always had 2-12gals (45l) tanks and fill one or both depending on trip usually at servo's prior to departing but have been known to carry two 6 gals from a servo down to where docked, only filled at a marina once and filled tanks in situ no problems.
Only 64 so didn't have a problem carrying them a couple of blocks (with a couple of stops) mind you did use a shopping trolley once .
Lots of long river trips requires plenty of fuel when sails just aren't an option eg 800k's part way down our Murray River.

Phil M wrote:
I've been zapped by static electricity so strong that I could not put my bare hand on the steering wheel or touch any metal stanchions or lifelines. The static sparks were strong and thick, and they stung. Once was out on the water and the other occasion was during setup near the dock on land. On both occasions, there was an ominously dark cloud passing by directly overhead. There was also lightning in the surrouding area, but not from this particular cloud.

Phil M

I've never experienced this kind of scary scenario - yet - but what should be the future drill here?

1. Go inside the boat and lie down.
2. Throw an unused extension cord end overboard to ground the boat.
3. Jump into the water.
4. Kiss 'peaches' and your a$$ goodbye and open that special bottle of scotch you've been saving for a 'special' occasion.
5. All of the above....

I've seen a lightning bolt hit the water about a mile from us, without the above effects, and it didn't make my happy space feel very comfortable!

Ross

The sound of lightning hitting water is the most undgodly, otherworldly, spookey sound I've heard. Even spookier than groaning ice on the lake.

I had heard it numerous times but couldn't positively (I was only 95% sure) identify the noise because the strikes have been numerous and too far away (thunder only can be heard for about 15 miles, if that, after that it is too faint to be audible) but it travels a much greater distance through water. Then I was listening to the numerous sounds that a sonar tech on a submarine hears and there it was! That sound then positively identified as being lightning striking water.

Re: lightning in a sailboat if you can't avoid it: there is the"cone of protection" extending from the top of the mast, but don't touch anything, and go below!
-B.

seahouse wrote:Re: lightning in a sailboat if you can't avoid it: there is the"cone of protection" extending from the top of the mast, but don't touch anything, and go below!
-B.

And pray the bolt doesn't blow a hole through the bottom of your boat. Another thread that was beaten to death.

I suggest getting rid of the 12-gallon tanks, and using four 6-gallon tanks instead. FIll them on the ground, at a gas station where the fuel is less expensive, safer and easier to manage, with less risk of back injury.

And pray the bolt doesn't blow a hole through the bottom of your boat.

Hey Russ!

Feel free to correct me if I have this wrong, but I believe that holes getting blown through the hull by lightning is far more likely to happen when the boat is on the hard than in the water. At that time you can simply exit the boat and seek appropriate shelter when the storm approaches.