MacGregorSailors.com

[quote="Duane Dunn, Allegro"]Here are a couple other handy things that can help you avoid the big leap to the dock.

http://www.boatshowproducts.com/EZDocker.htm

http://www.dockinghook.com/

We liked the EZ Docker a lot, but I felt it's way over priced (we tried it at the boat show one year). I simply cut up a tube on 45 degree mitre angles and welded up our own version.

oldest son switched the dingy from port to starboard while I handled the aft lines and fender. In a matter of seconds we were ready for the approach. I swung right, reversed to a stop and then backed to port for the approach

Jim,

I'm not saying Craigs method doesn't work. Aft springs have their use in many situations and I have used them with success before.

All I'm saying is a forward quarter spring will give you more leverage in the situation you describe than you will ever get from the aft spring. It's simple physics. In light to medium wind you will probably succeed with the aft spring as long as you don't let the bow drift too far away. In strong winds you'll find you can't get the leverage needed to bring the bow in.

The aft spring counts on your being able to bring the bow back to the dock by pushing against what amounts to a 3' lever (the horizontal distance from the aft cleat to the prop). When the line goes tight you are now rotating the boat around the aft cleat which is the pivot point. This small lever is not very strong at low speed and will be over matched in higher winds by the windage of the bow.

The forward quarter spring just simply gives you a better mechanical advantage as you will have a 25' lever to work with (the length from the bow cleat to the prop).

Usually the person who grabs the line helping from the dock has no knowledge of springs and thinks you are crazy. Ignore their perplexed look, instruct them to secure the line as you ask, the execute the spring approach.


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As I mentioned before, I'll try both (all?) methods, and try to become competent using any and all, depending on the conditions. By way of perspective, as mentioned, I normally have no problem getting docked, and in the one instance I was discussing, it required only one additional approach to the dock to resolve the problem.

To clarify the particular conditions I'm usually experiencing, we normally don't have a "person who grabs the line helping from the dock." Usually no one is near the end of the dock when I come in. As mentioned, I'm usualy single-handed, so I don't have a crew. Also, we don't have cleats or retaining rails handy in the outer portion of the dock. (So, throwing hooks at the dock probably wouldn't help.) Instead, we have vertical pilings spaced along the inside (water) side of the dock about 15-20 feet apart. So, I normally slip a docking line around one of the pilings to secure the respective end (stern or bow). - Then, depending on the conditions, I either jump on the dock to secure the other line, or walk to the other end of the boat to take care of it. So, although I agree that your 15-ft reverse spring line would be more effective, on balance, I'm still thinking that securing the stern first would be quicker, more convenient, and far safer in heavy weather under single-handed conditons as described, since I can do it quickly and convenientlly without leaving the cockpit. Seems to me that the speed and safety factors would usually outweigh the efficiency obtained by putting out the longer reverse spring line under my usual conditions.

Regarding the physics of using a short vs a long reverse spring line, I took several undergraduate physics courses, and I would not agree that when using a spring line the ONLY force moving the boat toward the dock is leverage caused by the line. That might be more nearly the case if we were talking about a displacement boat with fixed prop, but on the Mac, I think that the propulsive force of the prop (50 hp motor) and the two rudders (wheel turned hard to port when motoring forward) also produces a lateral force on the boat.

In any event, as previously mentioned, I'll try all the suggestions and endeavor to become proficient using any or all of them.

Thanks,
Jim

Re: Ez Docker....$117?!?!?! For a piece of line with a hook on the end?!?! That's gotta be the worst example of overpriced marine gadgetry I've seen. Great idea, but I'll follow your lead Duane, and make my own.

Frank C wrote: I had no choice but to cleat my docklines atop those already there, and nowhere to attach any spring line. When I returned, the other boats were gone and both of my lines had been neatly re-cleated after their respective departures.

If I have to use a dock cleat that is already being used, I uncleat their line, attach my line to the cleat, and then put their line on top of mine.
If they leave when I'm not there, they simply have to uncleat their line.

Beam's Reach wrote:Re: Ez Docker....$117?!?!?! For a piece of line with a hook on the end?!?! That's gotta be the worst example of overpriced marine gadgetry I've seen. Great idea, but I'll follow your lead Duane, and make my own.

Dittos Its fun getting stuff for the Mac, but the fun is lost when one knows an item is outrageously and insanely overpriced. I suppose there is a market out there with consumers that like "being taken"... or "enjoy" throwing $$$ away...

Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL wrote:

Frank C wrote: I had no choice but to cleat my docklines atop those already there, and nowhere to attach any spring line. When I returned, the other boats were gone and both of my lines had been neatly re-cleated after their respective departures.

If I have to use a dock cleat that is already being used, I uncleat their line, attach my line to the cleat, and then put their line on top of mine.
If they leave when I'm not there, they simply have to uncleat their line.

Yeppers Bill ... my bad!
You are politely reminding me of the accepted courtesy, but I forgot until later.
I should have cleated my lines under those of both other boats.
(prolly cd have heard grumbling about infernal "macgregors!")

I'd advise NOT messing at all with another boats lines. If you uncleat it and re-cleat and it slips you are now on the hook for the damage.

A better solution is to just pass your line under theirs, around the cleat and then bring it back to the cleat on your boat. No one can later claim you did a poor job of tying their boat back up.

This is actually the prefered way to tie up in many cases. It doesn't leave tails to trip on on the dock and it gives you control over your lines which are on your cleats.

If you are helping someone dock, it is actually bad practice to take the line from them and cleat it. They may not have wanted it cleated, they may have wanted it tighter, or looser. The correct practice is to take the line, pass it around something (cleat or otherwise) and then hand the line back to them on the boat so they can secure the line in the fashion they want. Now if it slips it's their problem, not yours.

Roger that Duane....the first time I passed someone a line (singlehanded) I watched while he looped it around the cleat and then walked away - no turns on the cleat horns...

I thought about asking him.....then realised I was better off just with a thank you

Why not just tie up the middle of the boat first and then go to either end .

If there's a cleat on the dock near the middle of the boat then this would be fine. But if the tying up points are towards the forward or aft ends of the boat then we are back to needing a basic understanding of leverage one way or the other to prevent the bow or the stern from being blown away from the dock.

I've recently bought a long line which runs from the stern starboard cleat, outside everything to the bow starboard cleat, across and thru the bow port cleat and back to the aft port cleat. I've also added sliding cleats to the genoa track. The idea is to give me maximum flexibility to use the line as a bow spring or stern spring or take some turns round the midships cleat to get a midships spring and of course also for picking up mooring buoys from the cockpit. In all cases the idea is to take up the slack on the opposite side to the dock at the aft end in the cockpit either on the stern cleat or on the genoa track cleat depending on how much line is needed at the business end. Simple really. I haven't used this set up yet but am looking forward to trying it out. I hope it will run thru the bow cleats without too much friction.

I've also bought one of those devices for hooking up to a cleat from onboard the boat- see here "handy duck". Great for single handed or for making life easier for the crew - no jumping and praying.

Mike