MAC High Speeds!!!

[delevi]

I have only used my gennaker a few times in very light winds. Can't wait to use it in force 10, sailing at 100 knts Sorry, couldn't resist.

Seriously, Scott seems to have the most experience with the a-spin. I took his advice and got the chute scoop for ease of use and safety, but haven't had a chance to use the kite w/chutescoop yet; but looking forward to it. Possibly on Saturday morning before the 20+knt winds pick up.

Leon

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Scott, please elaborate more on why you think there is a higher chance of knockdown (presumably you are talking about broaching here) with the smaller cruising spin versus the larger racing spin?

Also, is Mike Inmon selling the racing spin? And if so, will the sprit fit a 26X?

[DanBurke]

Windswept,
For starters, thank you very much for opening up a discussion based on SAILING PERFORMANCE. No offense intended, but when I was trying to get this sort of information from the owners group, I discovered that the general response was "every boat is a compromise" and continued to discuss the powering virtues of this boat. I didn't want a powerboat that sailed- I wanted a sailboat that could get me out of harm's way if the weather blows in!
Regarding the speeds you have encountered, I have come nowhere close to achieving 12 knots (knots, not MPH!!) And I certainly am a long way away from hitting the advertised 21 knots under power. However, with some additional tweaking of my sailplan and a better understanding of the tenderness of the boat, I hope to achieve consistent speeds in the 5's while going to weather, 6's when reaching, and if Santa is good to me, 8's with a chute!
Keep up the agressive sailing and don't break anything!
Regards,
Dan.

[ssichler]

Just relating what he told me about the cruising sail while taping the video. I believe the bowspirit of the racing sail had something to do with it not broaching.
The racing sail and bowspirit is not available from Macgregor according to Mike.

Scott, please elaborate more on why you think there is a higher chance of knockdown (presumably you are talking about broaching here) with the smaller cruising spin versus the larger racing spin?

Also, is Mike Inmon selling the racing spin? And if so, will the sprit fit a 26X?

[windquest]

Well, Went out yesterday to go get some proof for you all but no success. Went to my storage yard hooked up the boat, pulled up to the gas station gassed up then got on the road. Looking at the trailer through my side mirror I noticed the tire wobbling a little. Pulled over to the side of the road to check it out. To my dismay one of the studs was completely sheared off!!! Then with 3 of the remaining 4 lugs I was able to remove by hand! I am very lucky I noticed before I got on the highway, could have been a very bad situation. That being said once I get this fixed I will post pics.

As for the people out there skeptical of my claims, I understand my instruments may be off slightly off but I wouldn't guess more than a knot (and yes it is displaying in knots), it is brand new equipment, installed by the dealer. I have no reason to make these things up, I am just stating what my eyes and ears have seen. I am going to perform some very thorough testing and post my results. In regards to sailing in the 56MPH sustained wind I mentioned before I had no way to judge but another macgregor sailor told me that is what it was. And I know for a fact that was the most wind I have ever been in could barley even walk when walking around near the dock. Has anyone here sailed downwind in 30 - 40 mph winds with a full 150 genny out (no main)? I would like to see some speeds for that. Even if my ST40 was off by a knot that means I was doing 11. I have never been able to hit more than 9.5 - 10 knts with any other sail config (even in the supposed 56 mph). I wonder what I could have done downwind with just the genny in those winds, seems pretty dangerous though, almost definately would have broken something. Felt like something was going to break when I hit 12 in 40 mph winds.

Delevi, I post my wind speeds in mph what you say makes sense. It probably would be impossible to sail in 50knt winds. Fastest I have gone close reaching in high winds was 7.5 -8 knts. I was running memorial weekend at 9000ft (lake granby) and did 9.5knts. I wonder if I pulled down the main and unfurled the genoa I could have done better.

Mark,
Thaks for your input this would explain some things.

Richard, Yes I was there, some pretty cool tri's and spinakkers out. I brought out my little 12ft sailing dingy (english topper). I just find it a little too much work to trailer over after work, setup, then take down afterward. Do you have a slip or a dry space over there? What is your boat's name/color so I can look for you next time? Haven't put the name on mine yet, I have the blue hull (with some good scratches , thats what I get for letting other people drive), I think there is one other person out there with a blue hull, can't remember his name though.

[Frank C]

Good thing your were watching the mirrors.

WQ, this isn't intended as critical, simply a friendly caution that your results are far outside the norms. Your speed results using sail or motor are so far beyond the long histories posted here that they clearly must be incorrect. If a Bigfoot 50 has EVER accomplished 25 mph (a very big IF, even for a 26X), it surely wasn't at your altitude. The guys at Lake Tahoe (6.000 feet) report top motoring speeds at least 4 mph less than those at sea level - it's simple physics.

The scale difference from knots to mph could easily explain most of the anomoly. But if you're actually set to reflect knots, your ST40 is undoubtedly reading several knots too high (at least +5 at 21kn) and at least +3 knots at your reading of 12 kn.

Paddle wheels REQURE calibration and it's evident that your dealer didn't do that. Besides that, even after calibration they frequently reflect accurately for only a narrow range of speeds, say from 0 to 10 knots, or from 12 to 20 knots. If you really care about accurate speed readings across the full range to 20 mph, you need a GPS to calibrate that thing.

Again - not being critical here, and really looking forward to see your continuing assessments of your boat on those high lakes.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

WQ, a couple more things. My experience is that the Mac Genny starts getting marginally overpowered at 15 mph and most definitely overpowered with 20mph winds. At 40 mph wind (4 times as strong as 20), this big light sail would probably just flog itself to shreads. You really want to sail in that kind of weather, you need little tiny storm sails.

Also, unless you have a spinaker, your best speeds will occur on reaches, not dead downwind (and even spinnakers are not sailed completely ddw, just closer to it than genoas). Us spinnaker-less folks (working on it though) typically gybe from broad reach to broad reach. Nice thing about a Mac is that you can pull the boards all the way up to induce extra leeway while pointing 30-40 degrees off of ddw. This will get you quite close to ddw at closer to reach speeds and is probably one of the only advantages a Mac powersailor would have in most sailboat races.

[windquest]

Frank, Points taken. You can calibrate the paddle on the ST40. I most definatley will bring a GPS out with me soon, or at least have someone drive next to me at full throttle and see what the differences are.

Dimitri, I am talking about genoa only no main. I never said you could sail ddw but are you telling me you can't sail very close to it like that? It seems to me you could sail in some pretty high winds like that as well, am I wrong? You even probably couldn't veer too far off of ddw without becoming overpowered. Cause I am tellin you I was flying. Granted I am not highly experienced, but I do go balls to the walls so to speak (Guess its just my nature, Hobie sailor at heart).
On edit: I agree with your statments about the unfurled genny becoming overpowered at those wind speeds, but I think it's a completely diff. story sailing close to ddw with no main (whether it is a smart thing to do is another storyas well(breakage)).

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

The sail will start collapsing as you get close to ddw and speed will drop before that. I've never actually measured the angles but I wouldn't be surprised if it is something like 30 degrees off for a genny, 20 degrees off for an asym spin, and maybe like 10 degrees off for a sym spin. I've only flown kites on other boats so this is really just a SWAG.

[windquest]

I just don't see that because then how would it be possible to sail wing on wing, is it because the main feeds into the genny?

Those angles seem more accurate sailing with a main as well, not genny only.

[baldbaby2000]

I think we've hit over 8 knots under sail. Our 40 hp gets us to about 10 knots on Granby (8200 feet altitude). We'll be slipping our boat up there soon (hopefully next weekend) so maybe we'll see you there.

I've been in 35 knots with a jib and reefed main. Once a storm came up on Grandby and I was motoring in 60 knot cross winds with no ballast. The boat heeled by about 30 degrees but it was controllable.

[Richard O'Brien]

I brought out my little 12ft sailing dingy (english topper). I just find it a little too much work to trailer over after work, setup, then take down afterward. Do you have a slip or a dry space over there... I think there is one other person out there with a blue hull, can't remember his name though.

Windquest. I believe that I passed you heading out? Was that you in that little gaff rigged dinghy? Yes I am the only M regularly at Chatfield, Sail no. 427, blue hull. I store mast-up $65/month. Not having to put your boom on, and crank up the mast adds a lot of sailing time. Daniel, "Baldbaby" shows up once in a while. White hull sail no. SQ2. He's a pretty good sailor. I wish that I could figure out the fastest downwind rig for the M?

[windquest]

No mine isn't gaff rigged, I was hanging out near the big no wake cove on the south-west side. But yeah I thought that was you, we have spoken before. Last time we spoke you said there was still available spots over there is that still true? Is it by contract or month to month?

Ryan

[Richard O'Brien]

Last time we spoke you said there was still available spots over there is that still true? Is it by contract or month to month?
Ryan

Contract starting when you move in plus 75 dollar damage deposit. No I cannot imagine how you can damage a gravel parking lot? The contract ends on oct. 31 when the season usually ends, and begins again on april 1. Ask at the Marina.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

The reason you can sail wing on wing is because the main sail can be sailed much more ddw than the headsail. You gybe the headsail first but then you never gybe the mainsail and it stays on the other tack. Wing on wing is cool looking and probably the fastest downwind configuration without a spin, however, it is also pretty nerveracking as you have to be very precise on the steering or you can have an uncontrolled gybe of the mainsail. Some people use preventors but I haven't gotten there yet.