Naive Aussie seeking US wisdom

[Moe]

To me, the most remorseful thing about saving $8,000-$10,000 while getting a 26X with a MUCH better layout than the 26M is having to settle for an outboard you'd rather not have.

If you consider plastic-trimmed, veneered particleboard "elegant," you can even "upgrade" the X with some of that. Or for the savings, you can install lots of real teak, a better choice in a marine environment.

[aya16]

Moe you can spend the 8 to 10 thousand dollars on the engine you want
and put it on your old boat. And toss in a couple thousand in teak. Then you would have an awsome boat. A little slower then a new M but awsome
anyway.

[aya16]

You know Moe I have been pulling your leg a little.. You are so sure that the X is a superior boat and I have been ribbing you a little. My boat is fine and it has a nice interior/ layout. It fits and works out nice for my needs.
I hope you enjoy your boat as much as you defend it.
The real neat thing I see is that this little trailer boat, X or M Is being treated and used like a real sailboat. With autopilots and radar and lots of other stuff that big sailboats get. And in a post I made some where else I stated that I go where 99 percent of all the big boats at the marina I stay at, go. And its very comfortable for us. Getting there and staying there.
We tow or carry real dingys, Under sail we are safely in big water with the big boats. You have to admit that for what sits on those trailers it sure covers a lot of bases.
It seems that we have very little respect from the big boating public and have to defend our boats honor, But the reason for that is we go to the same places as these big boats with kids and dogs and family. It isnt like we show up in some 14-foot Catalina and the big boats are impressed with our skill and courage to brave the seas like that. No we show up with the kids the dog just like them and there was no more risk then they took.
Well it looks to me the dirty little secret is out and many people are buying our little boats instead to the big boats.
Now Mac. Doesnt make the X any more so these new boats are all Ms
And a few years ago you could get away with the big comparison and putdown of the new Ms but not anymore, every one I see that has a new M is happy with it and there is starting to be a lot of them out there. So move over we want to gloat too.

[DLT]

Moe,

I and most other M owners, I'm sure, try to take your criticism in the spirit it was intended. Sometimes, its just difficult...

You criticize the "cheap" wood look of the M. I agree that the "plastic-trimmed, veneered particleboard" is cheap looking up close. But, in my own personal opinion, that and the warmer color of the liner pieces make the M's interior much more inviting than the white clorox bottle look of the X.

Although, replacing the M's "wood" it is on my list of things to do. Actually, I'm tentatively planning on redoing the wood associated with the head such that the v-berth and head area will form a master cabin.

[Hamin' X]

I like Chevy pickups.

Sure seem to be a lot of Fords on the road though. Maybe Fords are better!

No, I think my Chevy is best, for me.

See what I mean?

[kmclemore]

I gotta say that although I do like the better than the for our own family's needs, I do miss having *real* woodwork in my sailboat... the Clorox bottle look only goes just so far, although I must say it helps keep the boat lighter inside longer into the evening.

Anyway, to compensate I'm slowly adding more natural wood to our to give it a warmer and more comfortable look and feel... I built a new wood dinette table and I've got some nice teak galley accessories for holding dishes, etc, and I've even bought a horribly expensive 4x8 sheet of Teak & Holly panelling for the cabin sole. I also plan to put a real wood door on the head, too, with a built-in teak vent. And maybe, if I get *really* inspired I'll make some wood window frames like those istnalled on the 's

Hopefully all this will at least give me the illusion that I'm on a luxury boat, even though everyone knows I'm basically a cheap old b*st*rd.

[Hamin' X]

Have you seen those new "Rambler's"? I used to think those AMC big Station Wagons were a sight, until I had privilege to take a trip in that big Ambassador Wagon. It was Fast, and the ride equaled a Lincoln. Nice Vehicle.

Terrible interior layout on the Rambler's. Check out the Skoda's. They don't lean so much in the corners, either!

[kmclemore]

Check out the Skoda's. They don't lean so much in the corners, either!

Ahh.. the lovely koda. Originally they were pretty good cars - they even raced at Le Mans and have been quite successful as rally and hillclimb cars - but over the years the communists turned them into utter crap, just like everyting else they touched... fortunately, since the freedoms Skoda has been rescued by Volkswagen and they've begun to regain their reputation... in fact their current advertising makes a joke of their formerly poor reputation and their sales have gone up pretty well.

But in a related item, here's a little tidbit for your automotive trivia files.... The name "koda" is the family name for the Czech family that originally started the company. Unfortunately, the Czech translation of the word "koda" in into English is "it's a shame" or "too bad"... like if you see a little child fall down you might say "Oh.... koda!" (pronounced "shko-daa"). A bit like Chevrolet's "Nova" in Spanish-speaking countries - "No va" being translated to "does not go" - the name "koda" didn't exactly inspire unblemished confidence!

koda's Le Mans entry:



Now... if you want to check out a really obscure but nifty Czech car, have a look at the TATRA.

[aya16]

AH Moe face it you have no sense of humor, all your criticizing is very serious. You never have a tongue firmly planted in your cheek.
Thats why so many dont get it.
It is a ford V Chevy thing and everyone knows it but you..
Relax guy try and write a funny post or something.
I still say the M is way faster than the X (Ford v Chevy thing remember)
Look at your pict. you almost have a smile there..

[Moe]

My criticism IS serious, and it's a helluva lot more than a Ford/Chevy thing.

The M's head location prevents extending the V-berth on the M's starboard side, where the dinette does that automatically on the X. Yes, you can extend the port side of the M V-berth, putting that sleeper's face right at the Porta-Potti but a short sleeper on the starboard side has to crawl over the port side sleeper's pillow to get to the head at night. The M head isn't centrally located, so anyone going to it from the cockpit has to get by everyone in the cabin.

This makes the only practical adult sleeping location the aft berth, which appears more open because of the high companionway, but isn't accessible from the center passageway, because of the tall, nonfolding ladder.

And because of MacGregor lying about cooler storage in the shallow aft dinette seat, many M buyers don't realize the only place MacGregor really provides for a decent sized cooler is in the aft berth... the only practical adult sized berth. Does Roger expect you to lift out a 70 Qt cooler every night? In addition to having to slide the galley forward to get in the berth on the port side?

It's poor design and misleading marketing (not entirely a new thing for MacGregor), with the drawing indicating cooler storage in the dinette, and a photograph of a young girl sitting in the rear berth right on the cooler cut-out cushion.

The sliding galley is a gimmick, required only because the head is where the dinette belongs, rendering the forward port side seating unusable for conversational seating and making the passageway in front of it much narrower than on the X. To use an Ice Cube cooler the way you can in the X, the galley has to remain forward. But then the question becomes whether an adult can squeeze by the cooler to get to the port side of the aft berth. Some have spoken of putting a cooler or refrigerator on the otherwise useless port side seating, but look how narrow that passageway between it and the head is. The sliding galley also precludes using a vented Wallas stove/heater.


These problems all stem from the use of a daggerboard instead of a centerboard, yet Roger twists the story around in his marketing, complaining of the interior design problem of a centerboard.

These are all, in my opinion, serious problems with the M, that kept us from buying a new MacGregor, and that Roger needs to address. I'll keep hammering away at them every time the question is asked, and most of the M owners here know that and take it with a grain of salt, realizing I have as much right to my beliefs as anyone else. That's my opinion and like it or not, you're going to continue to hear it if you continue to read my posts... even if those who can't bear the thought someone might suggest what they bought isn't the best, throw insults in big bold print.

[Moe]

While I'm on a roll... when it comes to sailing, a MacGregor powersailor is at best a conversion van or motorhome in a world of performance vehicles that will leave it in the dust (or spray). I don't know of anyone who runs vans or motorhomes in autocross or road races, but in the world of sailing Roger's now just like Rodney Dangerfield and "can't get no respect." Ruining the interior of the powersailor with a daggerboard and the poor layout associated with it is the same as ruining the interior of a van or motorhome by converting it to a mid-engine layout in the middle of the living area for better performance. It's still going to be the slowest, most tender boat in the fleet. Adding the complexity of the rotating mast is about like putting ground effects on a motorhome. Yeah, it'll help a little, but it will still be a motorhome.

[ALX357]

All true, too true, IMHO also, ...
....but there are NO MORE new X boats, and 'though your criticisms are actually meant to be constructive, if taken as pressure on the mfg. to rememdy the M layout, remember that the owners who are buying and using the M boats have mainly found contentment and love with their investments, and are incensed at the perceived attacks.
Unless these comments are acutally about to effect changes on the production of future Macs, it is only gratituitous cruelty to keep re-reminding us of the loss of the X advantages. Imagine there were no X boats and the M is the only Mac Alternative. Still by far the best thing around.

[kmclemore]

Hey, folks, I'll make it real simple... In the spirit of our beloved Sloop John B, let me take a crack at moving this debate to a more earthy and focused view of the X vs M debate....

Ahem.

So... let's say you're in the head.... and let's say you've just taken a huge, stinking, mother-of-god dump - the kind that takes all of a Sports Illustrated and the better part of a Popular Mechanics to pass - yes, indeed, ladies and gentlemen, this is the stuff of legends - it's truly a pile for the ages, one you will remember fondly well into your retirement... and let's also say that it's one of those sweltering summer days, the kind where the air is heavy and humid and wraps around you like an unwashed woolen blanket... and that air is as still as the air in a coffin, with your boat's colors hanging limp and lifeless from their mast like a damp dishrag... and let's say - just for fun - that you also had the asparagus at dinner...

Now which boat do you want? One where the head is nicely planted in the least-well ventilated place in the entire boat, where the aroma of your successful deposit will linger like a fine French perfume for hours on end.... or do you want one where you can open the hatch and let your vital vapors 'out-gas' to the great outdoors, sharing your bodacious bounty with ever-loving Mother Nature - who, after all, bequeathed that earthy present to you in the first place?

Choice is easy for me, folks.
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N.B. - I must admit, I've borrowed heavily on this argument from Lenny Bruce, one of the greats of satire. He explains the hypocrisy of racism similarly:

"Let's say you're white. The Imperial Wizard. Now, if you don't think this is logic you can burn me on the fiery cross. This is the logic: You have the choice of spending fifteen years married to a woman, a black woman or a white woman. Fifteen years kissing and hugging and sleeping reeeaaal close on hot nights. With a black, black woman or a white, white woman. ............... The white woman is Kate Smith. ............... And the black woman is Lena Horne...... Soooo... you're not concerned with black or white anymore, are you? You are concerned with how cute or how pretty. Then let's really get basic and persecute ugly people!"