MacGregorSailors.com

That plow, eBay #2467354661: Again, not highly rated by Practical Sailor, and accoriding to the marketng blurb that one's too small for the Mac by two sizes; according to that you actually need a 26 lb plow for the Mac. IMO, that would be too dang big to handle, but it's a moot point because the one offered is only 15 lbs.

Well, you guys have just about talked me into a bull also, but then I'll need an anchor roller, and then I'll have to relocate the bow light, and then ... Anybody besides Frank put the bull on an anchor roller, and if so, which roller did you use and how do you like it?

I don't quite understand why people are so against anchoring with 2 anchors one off the bow and one off the stern? If there is no one around to swing into you, what's the big risk? Seems like it may be useful to keep the bow into the waves for example, if wind and wave direction are not aligned.

My Bull's not on a roller; see the Mods page for my post on anchoring; though I admit a roller would make it easier to deploy and retrieve.

You don't always have the option of anchoring from both the bow and stern; in a crowded anchorage you must be free to swing in unison with the other boats, though the Mac's tendency to sail can make you unwelcome in said crowded anchorage anyway.

If you can get it to stop sailing, the boat tends to align itself toward the path of least resistance, and anything you do to disrupt this puts higher loads on everything. Besides, why hassle with deploying two anchors when one good anchor is plenty?

I believe the solution to sailing at anchor is an anchor riding sail. Sailrite has a kit which looks like it ought to be pretty easy.

Dimitri-2000X-Tampa wrote: ... I don't quite understand why people are so against anchoring with 2 anchors one off the bow and one off the stern? If there is no one around to swing into you, what's the big risk?

I understand there are two risks for coastal (ergo, tidal) waters, should heavy winds come up.

First, when bow-anchored, the wind and the driven waves are in the same direction. Since the stern swings downwind, waves are taken safely over the bow. But, prevent the stern from swinging and you could take tons of water into the cockpit, risking the vessel and your crew.

Second, the wind is nearly certain to clock overnight in most geographies. As a particularly heavy wind clocks perpendicular to your opposing rodes, it and the driven waves can potentially capsize your boat by spinning it on its long axis, between the rodes. At minimum, those heavy conditions will pile multi-tonnage loads directly on the beam. If you're lucky, catching those loads on the beam freeboard will snap a rode, pull a cleat, or pull (hopefully) the stern anchor free.

Bow-n-stern anchoring is a definite no-no in an exposed, coastal anchorage. If winds pipe up overnight, you don't want to be trying to cure your anchor rigging in the dark, wind and spray. Fix it right, in the daylight.

I guess that makes sense in an overnight situation with heavy weather, but still a useful technique in lighter weather IMO.

Regarding flying a sail at anchor, I wonder if you can back half a headsail and stay in a heaved-to type position on the anchor? Would that work or do you have to have a water flow over the rudder to stay like that?

You don't want to mess with the real sails while at anchor. They both fly in the wrong direction to be effective as a riding sail. Now if your boat is a yawl it's another story.

What it seems the mac needs is a anchor riding sail. This is a small triangle of fabric hanked on to the backstay. The clew as it is, (faces forward in this case) is sheeted out to one side, diagonal across the cockpit (with the offset backstay I would sheet to the port side to get the greatest angle). This feather on the arrow holds the boat at a constant angle to the wind, at least that's the theory. Sounds like this summer there may be a few of us who try it and we can compare results.

You accomplish much the same thing with the bridle between the bow and stern cleats that holds the boat at an angle to the wind. This uses the windage of the hull as the feather of the arrow.

I'm curious which is more stable and keeps the mac parked in one spot like a good little boat.

I have the 15 square foot, Anchor Riding Sail from Sailnet. It is a nice heavy sail with grommets in the corners. I have used it as Duane says, i.e. hanked to the backstay and sheeted to the port winch. I think it reduced but did not eliminate swinging at anchor. It tended to luff frequently which was annoying. I need to try it more and perhaps use the boat hook as a pole to hold the clew more outboard. You can use your main halyard or a topping lift to hoist it up the backstay and a pendant to hold the tack down to whatever level you want.

Just had a thought, why not just fly a decent sized kite off the stern? You would want something with a strong pull , single line, and that will be self tending. Probably easier to deploy than raising an anchor sail and no irritating flapping sounds. And it might otherwise just be a fun toy.

Craig, I think you may have the answer there! Does anyone have the link to the guy that sold them to replace the spinnaker? He posted on the old board. Not to complain, but I do miss those archives! I have it under my Favorites somewhere, but after scanning through that list, can't seem to find it. That would be a good setup, if the stern pulpits where used and some sort of harness was rigged to center the boat. I guess it couldn't be too long though, as it may come down, if the wind died. It then may become a hazard to props?

THanks. Sorry I don't recall the kite guy's contact info. His kites might have been a little bit large and expensive compared to what I as thinking, but if you get double duty out of it as a spinaker then maybe its not a bad idea. For me, single handing, I doubt I would fly the kite as a spinnaker, but at anchor it should be a breeze. it would also make it easier to pick out your boat if paddling your kayak back to the boat.

Usually there is no shortage of wind on the water, so I was thinking of a stable self tending kite that had maybe a 40 lb pull in a 20 mph wind. Maybe a big delta kite or something? Kitty Hawk kites might have a web site. THey have all kinds of kites as I recall from visiting their store while on vacation in the outerbanks.

You guys need to add a smiley face or something to let the rest of us know when you're joking.

Try this:
www.kiteship.com
Happy sails, Tony

Yea, that is it Tony! Well Chip, I wish I was joking when my X boat sails back and forth at anchor, it is disturbing, I will try anything to stop that movement however bizzare as it may seem. Maybe you have not experienced what I have. I mean it's almost a free energy machine if there was a turbine generator attached to the stern, it's that bad! OK, there's your smiley face!

I stood on the banks of Cat Harbor in Catalina, and almost didn't want to admit it was my boat. Seriously, if you have a solid fix, on this I am all eyes! I have never seen a boat do that ever! Of course there are no problems on mooring balls, but I like to dive off this boat, and right now I almost have to find wind free area's to board my ladder. It can be dangerous to board when the boat moves about like it does! And then the matter of other boats fearing for their safety, if they are nearby. It truly is a problem, solutions are appreciated.

Hello:
One thing I have tried, and had it work, was cleating the rudders out horizontal behind the boat and Lash the wheel. I couldn't leave it that way when I was sleeping cuz the clunking noise bugged me (light sleeper). It really slows the turn but not the sailing. Having the helm lashed 30* to port or starboard was interesting. It would make the turn slow then turn back into the wind slow.

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Having had several different sailboats and two Macs we have tried Danforths and now only use the Simpson Lawrence Bruce knockoff anchors on all our boats. It's reasonably priced and so reliable.


We have 8 years of experience with this anchor in rivers, lakes, and the entire northern Gulf-the intercoastal, beaches, bays, and offshore.
They hold exceptionally well in mud, sand, rocks, and grass.
In our big sailboat-we use a 33 lb. SL Bruce -- have been the center boat in a raft up with six other sailboats-all 31'-36', approximately 72,000 pounds total, in windy conditions , with our SL Bruce and have gotten it up in the morning.
We made two complete circles, had hardly any scope maybe 4:1 scope @ 23' deep We hope to try this with some Macs sometime just to see if this will work with the smaller SL Bruce---we are just getting this boat ready to travel and bought the 16.5 pounder from Sailnet for arount $61.00 in October. It was rated for a 30 foot boat so it should perform spectacularly with our 26X. ( By the way a 33 pound Bruce is WAYYYY to big for the Mac)

We never dive our anchor and have never been let down with it's setting capabilities. Our Gulfstar's weight is 20,0000 pounds and we have held in 55 mph winds-- with no problems and can get it up the next day.

That's with swinging in complete circles with wind changes, currents, and logs! We have bow and stern anchored with a smaller 16.5 pound at the stern and the larger anchor at the bow, and weathered one very bad storm and they held perfectly.

We have spent weeks out at anchor on the SL and still haven't experienced any letdown.

A note on anchor scope: The Bruce will do with less scope than Danforth's which need a MINIMUM of 7 feet of line for every foot of depth-that mounts up there quickly if you are in deep water. They don't hold well unless you do have at least that much out. The SL Bruce can get by with as little as 2 or 3 to one in nice weather or let it out if a storm is coming your way....not necessarilly recommended by the company but works all the time in most normal conditions...

Another thing that we can't emphasize enough ,is to use a
"fish finder" and scan out the area you plan to anchor on FIRST before you drop that anchor --put it into the cleanest, levellest area you can. A fish finder will see trees, posts, boulders, etc. and describe the bottom composition so that you can set that anchor properly and also get it up in the morning...It's the cheapest anchor helping device yet!

The next best thing to do is to really learn how to set down an anchor and
chain and do it right. Practice Practice Practice.

The SL Bruce usually comes right up but in the event that it's really stuck in the bottom do the following:

In the morning while everyone in the anchorage is wrestling with their ground tackle-trying to untwist Bahamian style (2) anchors and pulling up stuff, like trees and tires or tons of mud---all you have to do is go forward, pull up the rode until it's straight, go back to the cockpit for aother cup of coffee and let the boat bounce around ---when you are finished with the last cup---go back and finish pulling up your anchorline and anchor and Viola! It works almost all of the time. It works especially well if you scanned your bottom with that fish finder! ( and haven't hooked a tree!)

Our best friend has a Bulwagga and swears by it---it is ugly [/img]

ANCHOR SWING....well it is just the way it is with all ultralights with high freeboard like the Mac---rocker stoppers help but we use the anchor sail that we purchased from Sailrite years and years ago...we have used it on all our boats with sucess. It does not stop the swinging---we doubt that anything will stop that swinging (except bow and stern anchoring which is not always possible) but the anchor sail certainly helps.

We suggest that in very stormy conditions to take it off-go below and keep you mind off the swinging
Soo if you want to limit your swing to 10 degrees instead of 40 degrees then go for it. Buy that anchor sail or if you sew make one out of canvass for a trial run....Keep your rudders up and the centerboard too, it keeps the boat up on the anchor instead of tugging at it-why, you can even grab the anchorline with your hand and feel slack on it in windy conditions . It will de-stress the load on your anchor.

Go ahead and argue with us----we have been there time after time, anchorage after anchorage watching people anchor only to drag around later--we don't.

As for Practical Sailor-well, it's nice reading but not always right. IMO.